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Author Topic: Sanditon  (Read 4717 times)

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Ellisteph

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Sanditon
« on: August 26, 2019, 10:31:19 AM »

Last night I settled down to watch the new television adaptation of Jane Austen's unfinished novel Sanditon. At one point a ball was held in a grand house -surely an opportunity to feature some English dance music. I was astonished to hear Irish music - I confess I didn't recognise the tunes but they were certainly in an Irish style - and the band included a bodhran player. Surely this was inappropriate, or did early 19th century balls ( I think it was set in 1805) sometimes feature Irish music? I want to complain to the ITV but need to be more sure of the facts. I feel sure that many of our forum members will have far more expertise than I on this issue so I'm seeking advice.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 11:06:32 AM »

Last night I settled down to watch the new television adaptation of Jane Austen's unfinished novel Sanditon. At one point a ball was held in a grand house -surely an opportunity to feature some English dance music. I was astonished to hear Irish music

that's exactly how I heard it and I agree with all you say.  More than that, it sounded like contemporary Irish music. I don't mind a contemprary influence, but a bit of Boldwood, or the like,  would have sat far better for me. I don't know if complaining will get you anywhere, though.

I tried to find out who was performing afterwards and got some even stranger musical references.

My wife, on the other hand, couldn't understand why I even thought it worth mentioning

[Edit. I suppose it could been worse. They could have had a minstrel band].
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 11:16:26 AM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Theo

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 11:09:31 AM »

Old tune books from before then include many Irish tunes, and from other places too.  Vickers Collection is an example.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 11:25:39 AM »

I thought the music was most inappropriate. I was not watching it as was engrossed in plotting reed positions for a conversion, but my ears perked up.
Mind you if the historical researchers didn't spot front crawl about 70 years too early, you don't have much hope of historical accuracy in the music.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 11:35:35 AM »

Old tune books from before then include many Irish tunes, and from other places too.  Vickers Collection is an example.

You're right of course, Theo. Aird's Airs was a common source with an abundance of Irish and Scottish tunes, but it was the style of playing that jarred, for me, not the repertoire. Maybe Irish bands were in vogue, but I have never come across that idea before. This may actually be more historically correct than I think.
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Greg Smith
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Theo

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 11:43:30 AM »

I was surprised at the style of playing too,  and the style of dancing.  And to be completely nit picking the style of women’s makeup.  I’m pretty sure they didn’t have mascara in 1805.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Ellisteph

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 01:10:36 PM »

Old tune books from before then include many Irish tunes, and from other places too.  Vickers Collection is an example.
Yes that's true; but did anyone recognise any of the tunes? Or dances? surely it would have been more authentic to use tunes & dances that were known at the time rather than use new ones (I'm presuming here) ? And a quick google confirms that bodhrans didn't make an appearance in dance bands until the 1950's.
Good spot about the front crawl Pete. Historical inaccuracies abound.
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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 04:42:13 PM »

Not historically accurate in several ways, to be sure. I thought the ball music started off promisingly English sounding, and a quick glance at Thomas Wilson's Companion to the Ballroom http://www.cpartington.plus.com/Links/Wilson/Wilson%20Info.html will reveal that many Irish and Scottish tunes and dances were also available to Assembly musicians, but I doubt that they would have been in such preponderance nor sounded anything like they sounded by the last dance. The warning came early on with the tootle on the Irish pipes when Sanditon came into view, presumably indicating rusticity.
But then who could believe that coach and fours would leave the road into Sanditon looking better and grassier than my front lawn?(If I had one)
The object is not to present a history lesson but to tell a story, and at least the ball was portrayed as fun, and paced itself from sedate rising to wild.
If they'd used authentic tunes it would have been harder for the composer/arranger to claim copyright for her work. It's a shame the band and arrangement was modern Scottish/Celtic, but whoever hired the composer and commissioned the music will have only been aware of the usual Jane Austin fare (though she liked Scottish music), versus Celtic Connections. Boldwood et al are not mainstream after all, and we're nerds.
Still...

Alan Pittwood

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 04:44:17 PM »

Once viewers have stopped laughing at the CGI they might begin to ask questions about the music and dance in episode 1 of Sanditon.
 
The music is the responsibility of Ruth Barrett [https://www.ruthbarrettmusic.com/] (film score composer with recent credits
including Bodyguard, The Durrells and Victoria).  But just how far she can be held responsible and whether the Director is largely to blame remains to be seen. 

As the dance progressed the singer and some band members moved onto the dance floor: surely a complete nonsense. 

It is desperately sad that the knowledge of the dancing and music in the 18th and 19th centuries has been so wilfully ignored.  I am sure that Dr Lucy Worsley and her dressing-up-box could have done so much better.

The only thing they seem to have got correct was the men bathing naked: a practice that persisted for at least another half century or more until bathing regulations required costumes so that men and women could swim together.  See, Frédéric Bazille Scène d’été 1869.  However, in Hyde Park, London men swam naked until 1906 and in Oxford, men swam naked at Parson's Pleasure on the Isis until 1991.

As for the tune, the best I have got so far is Frieze Breeches, but I still have some doubt.
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JD

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 10:54:40 PM »

I thought the music for the ball became rather Riverdance-esque toward the end.


Wasn't the music behind the beach bathing scene Hoedown from Copeland's Rodeo?
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 11:28:18 PM »

And to be completely nit picking the style of women’s makeup.  I’m pretty sure they didn’t have mascara in 1805.
Quite right! Although kohl, lampblack and antimony-based eye liner and eye shadow had been used for thousands of years (Egyptians used it) by both women and men, mascara as such didn't come into use until the early 20th century.
A quick read if you're interested...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 08:44:17 AM »

bye the bye, I am told that the singer is Julie Fowlis.
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Greg Smith
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Ellisteph

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2019, 10:33:17 AM »

 I don't know if complaining will get you anywhere, though.

[/quote]
Complaining about ITV productions has not proved to be very simple. I finally found a twitter feed from @janeaustenhouse which asked what viewers thought - many negative reactions for a variety of reasons so I vented my feelings there. Their response - Hmm, food for thought. Hope it gets back to the producers.
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Tufty

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2019, 04:48:56 PM »

As an ex-Head of History I used to get quite vexed by anachronisms in film and TV but when I watched the 3 musketeers using japanese martial arts moves, before hopping a lift from a passing airship I realized that it was a lost cause and learned to accept Steampunk as reality ;)
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2019, 09:13:13 PM »

Hohner 4 stop spotted tonight in the pub.
Perhaps I should post this in the Hohner history section.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2019, 10:43:55 PM »

Hohner 4 stop spotted tonight in the pub.
Perhaps I should post this in the Hohner history section.

I think Tufty probably has the right of it. It is not meant to be an historically accurate depiction of life in the 19th C. They are more bothered about the story they are telling. To put it another way, it's not their purpose to get this sort of thing right. The production team are probably laughing their knitted in Korea socks off at us for caring.
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Greg Smith
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Winston Smith

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2019, 10:59:06 PM »

I'm sure that Greg is spot-on there, but there are some of us who still yearn for by-gone times when "continuity" in TV and films really did matter.  Fools that we are!
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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2019, 10:13:59 AM »

I've already forgotten the slight musical transgressions in the first episode. The rest of the music has been very good. The plot occasionally teeters on the edge of Julian Fellows' Downton Abbey predictability, but manages to stay firmly tongue-in-cheek by dint of having completely unbelievable characters and improbable plot twists. It should sell well as a graphic novel, which is not meant as a snide comment.

baz parkes

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2019, 12:19:24 PM »

having completely unbelievable characters and improbable plot twists.

It's Jane Austen. That's compulsory... :|glug
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Rob Lands

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Re: Sanditon
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2019, 02:37:25 PM »

I haven't watched beyond episode two, it didn't grab my attention enough.  But - it isn't Jane Austen, she wrote very little of this one.
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