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Author Topic: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI  (Read 2667 times)

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Roland Carson

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Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« on: September 05, 2019, 10:14:04 AM »

I have been working on this mazurka for a few days now and I am having trouble in my mind with the rhythm at the end of each part. There seems to be a pause in the mazurka rhythm which doesn't seem to fit when I count the three time. I throw it open for advice but please keep it simple as I don't understand technical stuff  :D ... Thank you for any help.

It doesn't appear to upset the dancers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI0P_TLehT0
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JohnAndy

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2019, 10:36:18 AM »

You are right, there are pauses in the rhythm now and then.

Personally, I don't like this, but some of the people who have commented on the Youtube video seem to think it is wonderful!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 04:37:32 PM by JohnAndy »
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2019, 10:58:42 AM »

Yes I know and I think it might perhaps add to the sensual feel of the tune for the dancers when they dance this 'clandestine mazurka' but when I try to play it and make the rhythm work in mazurka time there are moments when the number of notes played adds something like an extra beat. Particularly at the end of the B part before going back to the next A.
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JohnAndy

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2019, 05:00:29 PM »

Maybe it would be good to decide how you want to play the tune - exactly like she does on the Youtube clip, or more in a straight Mazurka time.

Is it the case that she is the author of the tune and that there's no alternative source for the tune, e.g. no dots or ABC version published anywhere?
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2019, 08:08:55 PM »

Yes, she is the composer and so the info is a bit limited but you are right about deciding how to play it....we will see  :D
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2019, 09:56:54 PM »

Maybe I should try to learn this, as it's been raining daily up here, so a lot of sighing is going on to.

SJ
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 10:29:59 PM »

Yes come on then  :D
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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2019, 10:40:34 PM »

This is rather lovely to listen to. The pauses don't seem to halt the tune, rather heighten the anticipation of the next phrase.
It wouldn't improve it to be in strict tempo.
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2019, 09:07:20 AM »

Thanks, as I said earlier; the dancers seem to move with the tune and perhaps they anticipate the pauses as they dance.
Having played it 500 times  :D .. I am thinking that the only time there is really a break in the rhythm is at the end of each B part.
Just a '2 note' pause.
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2019, 01:14:45 PM »

OK. I have made a video for Melnet. Here I played the tune twice with little differences each time. Mostly I tried to keep to the three time beat but at the end I find the pause unavoidable.
Comments appreciated  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZREciRgtb0
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playandteach

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2019, 07:06:11 PM »

Roland,
I'm rushing this response as I'm supposed to be playing table tennis in a minute. Great sounding box, and thanks for introducing us to the tune. I think at 1.32 the phrase has one too many bars, and yes there is a 4 beat bar in there too (which as you say is in the original playing too). If it were me, I'd want to keep an 8 bar phrase length, and work around the stretched bar another way. I don't suppose you wrote the tune down as you learnt it- I feel like playing again.
Nicely done by the way, just hoping this is the feedback you expected as I'm not criticising the playing.
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2019, 07:28:47 PM »

Thank you.. That's what I'm looking for because I am a little in stress with this tune  :D
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2019, 08:09:18 AM »

I think that perhaps the 'pauses' in a slow mazurka like this might be intentional on the part of the musician and can be anticipated by the dancers. This sort of thing couldn't work in a strict tempo dance like a bourree or scottische for instance. Personally I quite like the 'feel' of it with what I will call 'lead in notes' between some of the parts. It would be interesting to play it without playing bass to see how it feels.
I don't really read music so it's all about the 'feel' for the tune for me so in answer to your question I didn't write it down  (:)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2019, 08:55:32 AM »

Seems to be that her use of rubato is not an addition to the music. It is the music. The reaction of the dancers reflects how they feel her expressiveness. It would lose this if she played like an automaton. She brings the music to life.
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playandteach

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2019, 01:20:46 PM »

I'm not at all commenting on the pauses, just the extra beats to the bar. I'll listen again and see if I can work out what exactly is going on.
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playandteach

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2019, 02:45:23 PM »

Just written it out to see what is going on, and firstly, there are extra bars at times at the ends of phrases - which I can happily accept as they create a hiatus, the phrase ends, and then restarts with a pick up that couldn't be fitted in with the ending of the previous bar. So they could be contracted to fit seamlessly, but I can also see why the gap is successful. The 4 beat bar is absolutely 4 beats long, and presumably is completely deliberate, but sits less comfortably for me: I like it, but it seems a bit out of sorts for its purpose for dance.
 Unfortunately, having just played it through, it doesn't fit (transposed into any key) on a two row box. It needs accidentals in the upper two octaves which I don't have on a 2+2. Shame, as it is a nice tune.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 02:48:09 PM by playandteach »
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Serafini R2D2 GC, Castagnari Sander DG

Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2019, 03:55:02 PM »

Thanks for your comments. I would like to see what you wrote  ;D You are correct in that it can't be played on a two row.
I like the mood of the way she plays this and I would like to be able to play so expressively. I am going to send her a message and ask her about it. If she replies I will let you know.
Incidentally it seems that there are 12 bars in the A part and 8 in the B. Am I correct ?
I don't really read music but I can follow the dots a bit so I must go with the flow of the tune.
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fc diato

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2019, 04:47:38 PM »

Lovely!  And I’m glad you put this out there. I’ve been cutting my teeth on one of her easier waltzes, and finds she does subtle things (somewhat mysterious to me) that makes her playing irresistible to dancers … or so say my dancing friends.
I thought the end of your recording worked really nicely.  Yes, 1:33, and again at 1:52. Useful to get P&T’s parsing of what is going there.
Wondering how much her legato also contributes to the impulse of the piece?  (Although the way you detach notes in those higher sections -from 0:30 for ex- does give it an extra bounce.)  I too would love to see it written out.   ;D seconded
Anyways, thanks.
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Roland Carson

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2019, 05:37:02 PM »

Thanks. I'm glad this is of interest to you and I have been watching NO&MI for quite a number of years and admiring her way to play.
I think it's good to try to copy the people we admire to encompass as many different techniques as possible.
Thus developing our own style of playing.
We must be better when we play what we like to hear  :D
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playandteach

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Re: Soupirs sous la pluie NO&MI
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2019, 06:23:42 PM »

I just sketched it out in pencil. I'll type it up and post here. Yes, 12 bars plus 8 - which is nice in itself. I've left the first time bar in as played, but of course that means that there is a gap / extra bar. In the second time bar - as she creates more of a gap than playing extra notes, I've ignored that and contracted it to fit. I'll try to type it up tonight - it just means firing up the laptop.
I think the trick to playing it well is to ignore the idiosyncrasies of the structure and focus on the pulse of the bits that are in time- which she does so well. I haven't played for about 2 months, so this has got me wanting to play again.
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Serafini R2D2 GC, Castagnari Sander DG
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