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Author Topic: Cardboard for bellows  (Read 1592 times)

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RogerT

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Cardboard for bellows
« on: September 08, 2019, 10:18:20 AM »

Anyone like to recommend what kind of card is suitable for making bellows. I want to experiment. I could order some from Charlie of course, but right now I just want to tinker with the process.

Rees

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2019, 11:18:20 AM »

An old Italian bellows maker once told me that they use seasoned cardboard.
Perhaps you could find an old Cornflake packet from the 1950s on eBay.
 ;)
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folkloristmark

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2019, 11:18:38 AM »

Cornflake packets
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Mark Taylor
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RogerT

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2019, 11:44:14 AM »

I’m thinking cereal packets are a bit thin and not particularly robust (they tear easily). Maybe there isn’t a straight answer (I was expecting someone to say...grade x card). The card used to post books is pretty tough stuff. Maybe I’ll try that. Or something from the book binding trade. Maybe Nick CB will be along shortly to suggest something.... (:)

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2019, 11:45:44 AM »

« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 11:51:05 AM by Tone Dumb Greg »
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Greg Smith
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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2019, 11:51:42 AM »

If it's just for experimenting and discovering "how it goes",  I'd guess cereal(or similar) packet card would be as good as anything.  I'd think Nick would be the man to advise if you're looking for something a little closer to "proper" bellows card but less expensive.

Graham
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Theo

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2019, 02:13:30 PM »

Just use the proper stuff.  I’m all for experimenting and finding new ways when original materials are no longer available but why re-invent the wheel?
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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RogerT

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2019, 02:29:45 PM »

Yep. I've concluded t'same.

hallelujahal

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2019, 09:27:36 PM »

Mounting board from an art shop is what I use
Al
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Jon Stapleton

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2019, 10:18:12 PM »


I believe the original stuff was cotton/rag based manilla   but I couldn't find a supplier of this (i assume the demise of the rag n bone man is the reason).
I used the "grey" board a while back for a preciosa because i couldn't find the right card,  it lasted for a couple of years but the bellows did go a bit "floppy". I also used very heavy watercolour paper for another set and this has lasted better but again it still isn't really quite the ticket and is a bit stiff to start with.
Old Hohner originals were about 800 microns. if you find a source of the correct card  please do share!!

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Theo

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2019, 10:24:50 PM »

Charlie Marshall sells it
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2019, 07:02:18 AM »

I'd think Nick would be the man to advise if you're looking for something a little closer to "proper" bellows card but less expensive.

Graham

Thanks for the confidence Graham. Yes, Manila at about 200 to 300 gsm (Grams per Square Meter ) would be suitable, about the same as a Cornflake box. BUT, I seriously doubt the Ph of that ( cereal box) stuff I think it might be acidic and therefore rot fairly quickly.
  I’m sure no one would want to spend all that time making Bellows and then see them disintegrate in two or three years!!!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:54:52 AM by Nick Collis Bird »
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Peadar

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 10:23:04 PM »

Is manilla not based on a type of south american reed rather than wood chip or rag pulp?
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2019, 07:51:01 AM »

Please note that 'manila' (the original, old fashioned type paper made from Manila hemp) and 'manilla' (vastly inferior modern wood pulp paper/card) are two very different materials!
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Jon Stapleton

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2019, 01:12:18 PM »

Ahh i didn't know that!  Manila then from hemp!  When you think about it i regularly play a 90 year old set of bellows,  it beggars belief that a bit of card can put up with that kind of abuse for such a long time.
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invadm

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2019, 02:39:38 PM »

Ahh i didn't know that!  Manila then from hemp!  When you think about it i regularly play a 90 year old set of bellows,  it beggars belief that a bit of card can put up with that kind of abuse for such a long time.
if I'm not mistaken manilla cards still in use in fashion trade,I used to buy roles of different colours when I was working as manual pattern maker/cutter for clothing manufacturers many moons ago,first master pattern always drafted on a card..now days we use CAD CAM no more card or papers.I am sure you can find manilla card from 80 to 300 gr..guessing 240 + will be thick enough for bellows..only problem they come in 90cm wide and 90mt long roles.
here is a shop sells manilla pattern card, you might find more places who offers better price.
 
https://www.morplan.com/shop/en/morplan/pattern-manilla-cards   
   
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Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2019, 07:55:09 AM »

Ahh i didn't know that!  Manila then from hemp!  When you think about it i regularly play a 90 year old set of bellows,  it beggars belief that a bit of card can put up with that kind of abuse for such a long time.
if I'm not mistaken manilla cards still in use in fashion trade,I used to buy roles of different colours when I was working as manual pattern maker/cutter for clothing manufacturers many moons ago,first master pattern always drafted on a card..now days we use CAD CAM no more card or papers.I am sure you can find manilla card from 80 to 300 gr..guessing 240 + will be thick enough for bellows..only problem they come in 90cm wide and 90mt long roles.
here is a shop sells manilla pattern card, you might find more places who offers better price.
 
https://www.morplan.com/shop/en/morplan/pattern-manilla-cards   
   

Hmmm, it’s not the stuff we would use. When the site says “recycled materials” you think ah! What’s in it? Can the firm tell you it’s Ph ?
  We buy it in A1 sheets. If your just making one set of Bellows you certainly wouldn’t want yards and yards of it. Also, because it’s on a roll, the curl would be a problem.
   Anyway, as Theo says, Charlie Marshall sells it.
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RogerT

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2019, 07:58:46 AM »

Nick, where do you get your A1 sheets?

Nick Collis Bird

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2019, 08:35:08 AM »

I’ll have to check with my firm Rog. I’ll get back to you, the snag is you would have to buy a minimum of 500 sheets.
 Probably best to do an internet search crafts etc. Archival stuff is the answer.
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RogerT

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Re: Cardboard for bellows
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2019, 08:55:53 AM »

Ok thanks. When I get around to it, I’ll just get the proper stuff  (:)
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