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[Selam]

I've searched back through the forum as far as I can but haven't found the answer to this so apologies if it's there!!

I've just started using the basses and I'm finding that they a) are a lot louder than the treble and b) use all the air very quickly. What am I doing wrong?  

Thank you in advance!

euterpe

[Steve_freereeder]

I've searched back through the forum as far as I can but haven't found the answer to this so apologies if it's there!!

I've just started using the basses and I'm finding that they a) are a lot louder than the treble and b) use all the air very quickly. What am I doing wrong?

Don't worry, you are not the first to ask these questions  
There was this thread just over a year ago...
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,592.msg4601.html#msg4601
... and I'm fairly sure there was something mentioned on the old forum too.

I'm finding that they a) are a lot louder than the treble

LH Basses/chords can be loud, but it is difficult for a player to judge objectively exactly what a listener might hear. Although the basses may sound loud to you, because you are 'on top' of them, they may sound just fine to someone else a few feet away.  Here's what I wrote in the earlier thread:

A few years ago, a friend was convinced that her Dino Black Pearl 2 basses were far too loud for the treble, and that the melody line was getting swamped. A group of us listened to her play and found that the basses were not too loud at all, we could hear the melody perfectly well, and overall it sounded just fine. A few other people have had similar concerns since then, including a couple of times on the Melodeons at Witney weekend. In all cases they have been persuaded that their perceptions were different from other people's, and in fact their instruments were OK after all.

I'm finding that they ..... b) use all the air very quickly

It's difficult to pin down exactly without knowing what instrument you have; some melodeons with cheaper quality reeds will use more air anyway. But:
1. Basses and chords have larger reeds and will always use more air than the treble reeds
2. Whilst you are learning and perhaps 'fumbling' a bit on the LH, you will inevitably use more air. Once you have gained confidence, you should find that you waste less air.
3. If you are playing oom-pah style of bass-chord, bass-chord, etc., it's a good idea to try to keep the bass and chord notes relatively short and crisp, especially the bass on the 'oom'. That way they sound better, use less air and also are less likely to overpower the melody (which brings us neatly round to where we came in).

Hope this helps for starters.

[xgx]

Steve is spot on regarding the bass/treble loudness...
If you can, get someone to play your box whilst you check out loudness perception

I had similar misgivings with smallpipes ...it wasn't until I heard someone play my set that I realised the balance between loudness of drones/chanter was just right 

Having watched professional players and marvelled at their minimal bellows movement I'm still struggling to emulate that good practice ... a lot of air is 'wasted' in the process of learning a new tune/technique

[Sandy]

I had this worry for a while. We have a 'spotlight' circle type session at my local and I sometimes play tunes where the treble is set to a single reed and then use drone chords in the basses. (example tune-yellow haired laddie). I stopped playing it for a while because I thought the balance of bass against the tune was too strong. At home practising this tune, I realised just by turning my head to the other side, the balance was fine (bit of a doh moment really).....so it's back on my tunelist.


cheers

Sandy
 

[Chris Ryall]

Spend an evening playing your favourite tunes - but just the bass. Focus on making it light.  Using melnet's favoured Ommm Paaaaaaaaah Paaaaaaaaah notation, with "_" as silence. The examples are in a 3/4 rhythm...

Try

Om Paaaaaaaaah Paaaaaaaaah - just tap the big note

then

Om ___ Paaaah ____ Paaaah ____ just tap all sounds

once this works try ...

Om ___ Paaaaaaaaah  ___________   miss out a complete chord!
      In your head ... play this as a 'chord of silence'

Om___   ___________ Paaaaaaaaah   as above reversed


Want to progress?  start with ...

Om Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah - play the 2 pa's as one

leading to

Om Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah^  ______
     In your head ... use the taking off of your
     finger as a rhythm event. Take it off half way!
     Teach left hand to vary that paa...ah length at will

Oooo....oooooooom^ ____  Paaaaah ______
     The  pa..h___ bit is now strictly one beat.
     Learn to vary that Ooooo...oom length at will
     over the other two beats

Now you can try

 [Oom/Paahh together]^  ________   ________
 Vary the played sound as above. But play some silence

Anything other than [Omm Paaah Paah]-repeat  will leaven it and the time invested will repay all your playing career. Once you've got some of these semi-automatic - sleep on it. The next day you can reintroduce tune against your new 'lighter' bass end. Your brain will have intgrated it.

Actually it is not quieter at all!  It was just that [Omm Paaah Paah]-repeat that made it stodgy. For me - seeing the taking off of fingers as a bass event was a real gestalt moment.  Good luck  Chris      

[HallelujahAl]

a) are a lot louder than the treble and b) use all the air very quickly

You're not doing anything wrong. But its easy to perceive the basses as overwhelming the treble end in the beginning - it happened to me. But what maybe is happening is that your fingers of the left hand are holding onto the bass buttons just a tad too long. The answer is not to dawdle around on the bass buttons but to play them and then get the fingers off again quickly. I found in the beginning that sometimes I was using the bass buttons almost as a drone accompaniment (yuk). So quicker on and off the buttons makes the bass a bit punchier, uses less air, and won't overwhelm what you're doing on the treble side. Hope this helps.
AL

[george garside]

om effect its a bit of aural deception that is required.  since the same 'block' of air in the bellows supplies both treble & bass pushing harder will increase the volume at both ends without altring the volume balance between the two ends. Exactly the same applies  if pushing gently - both ends go quieter but with the same balance.

The aural deception comes from playing the bass notes  very short (tapping as if red hot)  so that while the volume they make doesnt alter it sounds quiter because it is only around for a very short time. Lifitng the fingers right off the bass buttons between strikes  uses up the length of time you may otherwise be playing the bass notes. 

There are of course exeptions to this such as eyou want to put in a 'drone' or  play a long chord using bass & chord buttons together - use the light tapping as the norm & only do the heavy stuff on purpose!

george

[Selam]

Wow - you guys are so helpful!!! I am glad it's not just me! In answer to Steve, I'm playing a Weltmeister 86W.

  I can't wait to try the recommendations. If only work would let me have the afternoon off!     

[Matthew B]

Chris,

Interesting turn of phrase: "chord of silence".  Several members of my household have suggested I develop a "melody of silence", and indeed entire "tunes of silence". 

George's advice to play the bass as if the buttons were red hot is helpful.  Also I find it makes a difference where you sit (stand?) to play.  When playing with others I try to sit on the left hand end of the line, otherwise some poor soul is in the direct line of fire of the bass end, and hears little else --- and in small spaces sometimes risks getting bumped by the moving end of the box into the bargain (by the same token never sit to the left of the fiddler, or in front of the trombone-player, without careful consideration).  Playing alone I tend to avoid sitting so that the bass end is pointing at anything too resonant, like a blank wall, as I find it gets a bit noisy.  Try playing outside, it can make a big difference. 

[Steve_freereeder]

In answer to Steve, I'm playing a Weltmeister 86W.

Should be OK to a listener then, even though the LH might sound a little loud to yourself. It's a while since I tried out a Weltmeister, but I think the bass reeds are reasonable quality these days and shouldn't be too air-hungry.
Good luck with all the practising  

[stevejay]

Tap lightly

[Hello]

As said before, the balance between ends remains the same so there's not an awful lot you can do.
In addition to the suggestions above, playing more than one note (chords) on the right hand where possible will introduce more reeds and therefore make more noise from the treble. This will use even more air though.

[george garside]

As said before, the balance between ends remains the same so there's not an awful lot you can do.
In addition to the suggestions above, playing more than one note (chords) on the right hand where possible will introduce more reeds and therefore make more noise from the treble. This will use even more air though.

a very effective compromise is to play rhythm rather than chords on the right hand i..e. instead of ,say, 2 notes  buttons together  play tune note on the appropriate button & beat time on the one you would otherwise use for chord.

 Another thing is that it is usually possible is to go even lighter on the bass!  I find it very easy to drift towards slightly heavy bass unless making a concious effort - (by listening!) to play very lightly.

there is also the less is more principle  & not playing the bass at all for certain parts of the tune can be a very effective form of 'ornementation'  particularly if the rhythm is maintained by the bellows.

george

[Rob2Hook]

All interesting stuff and quite true (especially not sitting in front of a trombone).  A few exceptions though, I sometimes intentionally bounce the bass off a wall if playing alone at a morris practice so it can be heard, I'll sit on the right of a better player so as to see and hear what he/she is playing.

Get someone to play your box at you from time to time.  I still do after many years and fdnd it reminds me how much better it sounds from the front!  I have known old and refurbished boxes to have an imbalance, often due to the replacement cloth fitted to the grille.  One Erica I knew was improved no end by removing the replacement treble grille cloth.  It often arises in conversation whether this is why Simon Care plays his Dino with the grille removed completely.  He told me he lost it, but that was several box changes ago!

Rob.

[Selam]

Thanks for all your help, guys. I've tried the suggestions and I think it was just the way I was playing. Haven't yet found anyone to try it so I can listen but it sounds better to me. And hey - I shouldn't expect too much of myself. I've only been playing 8 weeks! 

I think I need to go out and find more      -ers in real life! It's hard to work out if it sounds ok or not!

Thanks again!   

[Sebastian]

I think I need to go out and find more      -ers in real life! It's hard to work out if it sounds ok or not!

When will we see your first Youtube-vid? 

[Selam]

When will we see your first Youtube-vid? 

Haha - figuring how to do one of those I think is beyond me! So the interwebs is safe for now!

[Chris Ryall]

Interesting turn of phrase: "chord of silence".  Several members of my household have suggested I develop a "melody of silence", and indeed entire "tunes of silence".  

I would refer you to John Cage's magnum opus* in that case. I didn't actually get as far as a complete piece of work - but in developing my own left hand I've found adding in a chord (or bass) of 'silence' a really useful concept.  It also allows you to get 9 chords out of an 8 bass without resorting to cross fingering It also IMHO makes your left hand much more structured, and interesting.

I'd echo all that has been said about 'red hot keys' etc which is not 1,000,000 miles from what I've tried to say.  

PS: I refer to 4'33" (Pignol quotes this in full on one of this own works)

[george garside]

Interesting turn of phrase: "chord of silence".  Several members of my household have suggested I develop a "melody of silence", and indeed entire "tunes of silence". 

I would refer you to John Cage's magnum opus in that case.


Is this his large Irish tom cat

george

[Ebor_fiddler]

Surely it's the cat's champagne? BOOM BOOM!