Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ziachmusi/Louise]

Hi
I've just invested in a audio recorder (zoom H2) as i thought it might help my learning process.
Firstly i thought it would be good to actually hear how bad I  play :'(
Secondly I can record others so to know what I'm aiming at
and thirdly I can record my hubby playing SLOWLY (Banjo) so that I can practice "with" someone and get my speed control sorted without driving them mad.

Any thoughts on this other suggestions that could be useful?

Louise

[Skipy]

Hi Louise,

You asked for other suggestions, well, someone, I think it was our Bill Young, posted a brilliant idea a while ago, regarding the H2 which I swear by as it works brilliantly for me when playing in loud sessions or groups (assuming you have an accordion microphone fitted);

1. Plug your Accordion Mic into the External Mic Socket on the H2
2. Use 'Recording Standby Mode' on the H2
3. Adjust the 'Recording Sensitivity Levels' as desired
4. Plug a set of discrete 'in ear' earphones into the headphones socket on the H2 but just use one ear
5. Adjust the Volume Level as desired
6. Clip the H2 to your belt or well, whatever  

Result?

You will always hear what you are playing, no matter how quietly (great if you are just trying to join in or learn a tune) or however loudly your fellow musicians are playing, even if our friend Chris Ryall is playing near you and starts being a menace 'departing from the dots', you said it Chris   .

The only problem is that you can't record and do the above. I use an Olympus Digital Voice Recorder for that but that's a different matter and more expense, I fear!

Skipy



 

[Chris Brimley]

Yes, there's been another thread about digital recorders, which is worth checking out.

I also find the H2 incredibly useful, and of amazingly high quality.  A few things I've learnt:

Get a pack of high quality NiMH 2600mAH (or more) batteries and a fast charger - I'm very pleased with mine from 7dayshop.com, and the prices were very reasonable.  The battery life on the H2 is not great, but if you swap them over before you go out to do any recording, and take a couple of spares, you shouldn't have any problems, and the new generation of rechargeable batteries have allegedly ironed out most of the problems they used to have.  You can of course use the external power supply, but the problem is that the recorder is so light that all you need to do is to touch the cable, and the H2 will end up bent, on the floor.  I have done this three times before I realised it was just too risky.

I've found www.goldwave.com to be really useful.  I just plug the recorder into my PC, transfer the file into a folder, and open it with Goldwave.  You can then very easily change the volume, trim it, cut out unwanted sections, etc.  I know it's not a particularly sophisticated bit of kit, but IMO it's just right for the job.  Then you can play the whole thing several times without touching the PC, or just sections you need to learn, or whatever, using the 'start and finish section' functions, and see exactly where you are in the music from the trace on the screen.

H2's (and H4's, apparently) don't seem to work very well recording with line input, and I can't find anybody who knows why - there's some sort of mismatch.  However the internal mikes are so incredibly good that in practice it doesn't seem to matter much using them most of the time.

I had initial difficulties with recording things live in small rooms.  This is because the level of background noise can be extremely high on occasion (nearby clapping and background conversations are real killers) - it's not the H2's fault, it can't tell which bits of sound you want to hear.  I deactivated the AGC, which helped a lot, and compression can also be useful.  What I do now is to manually set the recording level to either med or high gain, and adjust amplitude by judgement for what I think the sound environment is going to be like.  If you then find that the recording is too quiet, well it doesn't matter much, because goldwave can automatically sort it for you, and because the level of electronic noise is so low, it probably won't be noticeable for practice purposes.

I tend to set the mode to mp3, say 192kbps.  You get really high quality sound, and you can usually e-mail the recorded tunes around to chums 2 or 3 at a time without exceeding the 10Mb limit.

If you set the recorder so that with two instruments it's picking up mostly one on each mike (you could probably do 4 in the same way using the 4 ch option, but I've not tried it), you can then use the balance control on your amp to balance the two instruments as necessary for practising a part.

A lot of this was pretty basic stuff, but I hope some at least was of interest.

[Ziachmusi/Louise]

Thanks for the tricks and tips
I don't have a box mic but I'll keep the possibility in mind should I get one, personally my problem is that when I play with others I tend only to hear myself, with all my faults I just hope nobody else hears them.
The basic stuff is also really helpful as I'm still playing around with the Zoom to see how and what it does.
Thanks again
Louise

[Pete Dunk]

Rather than start a new thread I'm posting a link here to an interesting Zoom product.

Spot on for TOTM videos and doubles as an audio only recorder.

[theSmoiler]

You will always hear what you are playing, no matter how quietly (great if you are just trying to join in or learn a tune) or however loudly your fellow musicians are playing, even if our friend Chris Ryall is playing near you and starts being a menace 'departing from the dots', you said it Chris   .

Skipy

Anyone tried this with an Edirol R-09?
Unfortunately, I don't have a box mic, though....and presumably needs judicious choice re. which ear you put the ear-phone in, and which ear you leave free to still be able to hear the tune from the rest of the room....

[theSmoiler]

link here to an interesting Zoom product.

Spot on for TOTM videos and doubles as an audio only recorder.

That is interesting, Pete - could be a good choice. Doesn't do .wav though, which I presume the other Zooms do? What is 640 x 480 like, as far as resolution goes? (I subsequently found out my TOTM video, that you had problems with, was shot at 1280 HQ resolution - being the default setting. I'm thinking I might be better setting it at lower next time, but wasn't sure what to go to. Sorry, TD)

Would also be useful to have the holder-thingy, like I've seen on Howard's H4, if you were going to shoot video of yourself.

[c2aminor]

If anyone is considering buying a hand-held audio recorder, you should check out the Sony pcm-m10, which Sony just put on the market about a month ago. I have had mine about a month and think it is excellent. It is very easy to use, the recording quality is superb, and it has a nice solid, well-made feel to it. ----------- Richard (c2aminor)

[mikesamwild]

I've just been reading The Ballad of Britain (2009) by Will Hodgkinson who went round Britain with a Zoom.  he was doing records of performers in 'the field'

Is it necessary to have that recorder or would these others eg the Sony just mentioned be enough?

In the past I've had cassette recorders, Sony DAT ( still excellent) and mini disc.  All I really want is a built in microphone and digital recording to a memory and playback with in/out links to a computer etc with a memory stick or summat.
Any advice?

[Pete Dunk]

That is interesting, Pete - could be a good choice. Doesn't do .wav though, which I presume the other Zooms do? What is 640 x 480 like, as far as resolution goes? (I subsequently found out my TOTM video, that you had problems with, was shot at 1280 HQ resolution - being the default setting. I'm thinking I might be better setting it at lower next time, but wasn't sure what to go to. Sorry, TD)

Would also be useful to have the holder-thingy, like I've seen on Howard's H4, if you were going to shoot video of yourself.

Yes, the audio format is a bit odd, PCM means nothing to me but it does record audio to CD quality and above (but is limited to 320bps MP3 when recording video). The other Zooms do .wav (I have an H4 and it's brilliant) and the H4 came with a cradle for tripod mounting but this handy video thingy doesn't need it as it has a tripod mounting bush in the bottom. Better info, description and pictures on the Zoom website.

I'm no expert with video resolution, you might be better off reading GbH's video hints in the TOTM forum. As I recall youtube has a tutorial to help you upload files of the right type and resolution but I haven't uploaded anything for ages and have forgotten everything I read at the time (early onset senility  ).

I doubt I will buy one of these myself as I already have the Zoom H4 and a reasonable video camera, but I have to say that the X-Y stereo mics, general build quality of Zoom products and built in USB interface do make it tempting.

Pete

[Pete Dunk]

I've just been reading The Ballad of Britain (2009) by Will Hodgkinson who went round Britain with a Zoom.  he was doing records of performers in 'the field'

Is it necessary to have that recorder or would these others eg the Sony just mentioned be enough?

In the past I've had cassette recorders, Sony DAT ( still excellent) and mini disc.  All I really want is a built in microphone and digital recording to a memory and playback with in/out links to a computer etc with a memory stick or summat.
Any advice?

Hi Mike, There are lots of 'handy recorder' type products on the market now and you don't need to break the bank to get a decent one. More money usually just buys extra features which you will probably never even read about in the handbook, much less use.

If you get a chance, pop along to a decent music shop and get them to demonstrate what they have in the way of basic models. The sound quality will be just as good as the high end stuff and it will be easier to use. I'm not familiar with the Sony mentioned earlier but they are a reputable company and I'm sure it will be a good product. The main criteria for me would be ease of use and robust build quality in a straight forward field recorder.

Pete.

[Skipy]

....and presumably needs judicious choice re. which ear you put the earphone in, and which ear you leave free to still be able to hear the tune from the rest of the room....

I always use my left ear but either will do and I never have any problems hearing the other musicians.
It seems to be catching on though, I now know two other musicians who use an earphone setup...... Well, a musician and a Banjo Player 

Works for me!

Skipy

[mikesamwild]

[tedrick]

I am researching my first digital recorder - I have played around the with the zoom h4 and don't think I need anything that big/fancy -

so I'm looking at the zoom h1 or the tascam DR-05
I like the price of these smaller recorders -

has anyone had any experience with either of these 2 recorders?

Reed

[MandoC]

Reed:  I recently bought a Tascam Dr 05 for my wife who wanted one to record sessions and our band.  She hasn't used it much so far, but it seems to be very good and easy to use.  I am thinking of getting one for myself. It  downloads in a few different formats including wav.files. It has a slowdowner function built in. I got it at Musician's Friend when they were having a 10% off sale.  Charlie

[Sage Herb]

Hi Louise,

You asked for other suggestions, well, someone, I think it was our Bill Young, posted a brilliant idea a while ago, regarding the H2 which I swear by as it works brilliantly for me when playing in loud sessions or groups (assuming you have an accordion microphone fitted);

1. Plug your Accordion Mic into the External Mic Socket on the H2
2. Use 'Recording Standby Mode' on the H2
3. Adjust the 'Recording Sensitivity Levels' as desired
4. Plug a set of discrete 'in ear' earphones into the headphones socket on the H2 but just use one ear
5. Adjust the Volume Level as desired
6. Clip the H2 to your belt or well, whatever 

Result?

You will always hear what you are playing, no matter how quietly (great if you are just trying to join in or learn a tune) or however loudly your fellow musicians are playing, even if our friend Chris Ryall is playing near you and starts being a menace 'departing from the dots', you said it Chris  .

The only problem is that you can't record and do the above. I use an Olympus Digital Voice Recorder for that but that's a different matter and more expense, I fear!

Skipy

I'm no expert on this (and others might be) but I do have some hearing damage and I'd personally be very wary of working with a headphone just in one ear. If the ambient sound/ noise level into your non-headphone ear is high, the temptation will be to turn up the level in the headphone ear with the associated possibility of hearing damage. (Of course this doesn't apply to working in a recording studio, where the ambient noise level won't be high.)

More generally on this topic, free Audacity software will allow you to edit rehearsal or session material to your satisfaction. If buying a recorder, a feature to look out for is whether it's possible to insert a track marker without stopping the recording: a very useful function if you're recording a session. The Zoom H2 doesn't have this, but is otherwise great, and it's easy in Audacity to see where tunes begin and end.

Cheers, Steve

[Chris Ryall]

Thanks Skipy 

As for recording .. I bought the zoom and didn't like it at all.  I like to quick record when 'in the field' and it takes about 30 seconds to boot up. There is also a long latency to both recording, and stopping recording.  I actually disliked it so much that I passed it on to daughter Dolly May - she tends to record 'set piece' - often with a choir - so no problem.  I'd further comment that the build quality is - well -plastic. 

I bought the Olympus LS-11 for m'self which is solid and stell clad with about a 30 hour record time on mono and totally responsive. Absolutely loved it and will re-post Norbert Pignol's 'break' from August of last year to exemplify what it can do from the breast pocket of someone dancing a fast bourrée with a Parisienne!

Sadly I have to report that it is less than robust .. when someone in a session (Upton) spills beer over it.  I got it as dry as I could but it doesn't boot up any more  I think the engineer said "Donald Duck'd", although that might have meant something else  - he was a Cockney.

    Pignol: http://chrisryall.net/tunes/fast-auvergat-pignol.mp3
  All clips: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,8143.msg101116.html

Yes - audacity is just fantastic and free. I'm presently it to make single note clips for the simulator from my Gaillard .. over 6 octaves .. with about 4 notes 'nudged' a semitone or so using the software 

[Thrupenny Bit]

I've recently got the Olympus LS3 for similar recording me at pracise and sessions.
It produces good quality recordings, though confess to not having explored it much as yet. My friends have borrowed it to get decent recordings for their band's website and listen to themselves during practise nights.
They keep coming back again to have another loan and really rate it!
Q

[Chris Ryall]

Must be T-totallers 

[Thrupenny Bit]

Absolutely Chris, we are most absteemious down here. Never touch a drop.
Ummm...... More tea vicar?
( as if............!) 
Q