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[Helena Handcart]

While I think both techniques are valid, I do think that playing effectively in a staccato style is harder to accomplish that the smoother option of leaving the finger on the button. For that reason I would encourage staccato playing in the early days - you can always take the lumps out later but it is much harder to learn to put them in if you haven't tried staccato from the start.



* disclaimer, yes I do like lumpy English music.

[richard.fleming]

I play Irish on a B/C where "staccato" is not what's required.
[/quote
 Who told you that?
 Admittedly there may be a bit less stress on staccato with the BC style, but I must say I've always thought it best to have some space between the notes, particularly with fast triplets which should sound as crisp and distinct as machinegun fire. In fact I've been wondering lately if I could play Irish more legato and have found it very difficult and really not to my taste.

[playandteach]

I agree with George on most of the points but not the lifting higher of fingers in order to play more staccato. There are a couple of good technical reasons not to lift fingers higher than necessary. For me it's like saying that the further you stand from the fridge the more weight you will lose. It may be true but for the wrong reasons.

[Stiamh]

You are your own best teacher.  Trust your ears.

Wish I'd written that!

Oh wait, I did.   

I play Irish on a B/C where "staccato" is not what's required.

Who told you that?

Put it this way, have you ever heard or read a box teacher in Irish music say that you had to go lifting the same finger on the same button when you change bellows direction?

I thought not. If you want staccato, get a tenor banjo.   

As for paying more attention to the gaps than the notes... once you are doing that, it's just a short step, not from the fridge (LOL), but from John Cage and 4'33"... 

[Chris Rayner]

“Music is the space between the notes.”

Attributed to many, including Claude Debussy, Mozart, and Ben Johnson. 

[Stiamh]

“Music is the space between the notes.”

Attributed to many, including Claude Debussy, Mozart, and Ben Johnson. 

Ben Johnson the sprinter or Ben Jonson the playwright?  Each seems about as likely as the other.

Definitely a useful way of looking at music, or re-thinking one's approach to musical phrasing. Piano music by Ravel or Debussy for example, or jazz by Miles Davis (yet another "attribuee").

But in respect of traditional tunes from these islands, played on melodeon... gap between G and A played on a single button...   

Edited to remove errant é in Duhboossy

[Winston Smith]

As one who has really appreciated this forum since I first caught an interest in melodeons, I feel that I should apologise to the OP for all the conflicting opinions that she's receiving here. They really aren't helpful! Many are the times when I've read (also on here) that "There are no rules!" Can't we just leave it at that?
Self-imposed rules of playing are exactly that....self-imposed; they don't suit everyone else, nor do they suit every circumstance.

[Gromit]

I play Irish on a B/C where "staccato" is not what's required.
[/quote
 Who told you that?

Kevin Crawford, Brendan MulKere, Michael McGoldrick, Siobhan O'Donnell, Marcus O'Murcha, Brian Finnegan to name but a few. These are all respected Irish muscians (most are professional and mainly flute players) who have taught me in classes and workshops over the 30 years I've been playing 'Irish' flute. The major instruments in Itrad are fiddle, flute, pipes, concertina and box and are nearly always played in a flowing style.

[Lester]

As one who has really appreciated this forum since I first caught an interest in melodeons, I feel that I should apologise to the OP for all the conflicting opinions that she's receiving here.

Why should you apologise? The fact that there are conflicting opinions means that there are more than one 'right' answers

They really aren't helpful!

Yes they are, they show that different types of music may lead to a different answer, that different st;yes of playing may lead to a different answer, etc

Many are the times when I've read (also on here) that "There are no rules!" Can't we just leave it at that?

Not really without explaining what the various options are otherwise the OPs will just bumble along in isolation.

[Helena Handcart]

Given that the OP states she is playing D/G debates about the niceties of technique for ITM are probably rather wide of the mark.

Welcome to the forum Sheila, it's great that you have joined us. As you can see there's often a wide variety of opinions expressed here - don't worry, most are friendly and well meant with only the odd exception.  As you've probably also noticed we do like a bit of thread drift around here too.

Maybe it would help focus minds if you tell us a little about yourself and your playing - what sort of music do you play? Are you interested in morris or sessions?  If so, then depending on where you're based (and there is absolutely no requirement to say if you don't want to) there may be other local players at a similar stage to you or one of the network of friendly steady-speed sessions where you find peer support and a bit of help from the more experienced in the group.

Either way, welcome to the world of melodeons, to our little corner of the internet and to playing D/G.

[Sheila]

Many thanks to all who have kindly commented. I will try playing staccato (lifting the fingers off each note every time,) and also play the other way to see how it works for me from now on,  maybe using different approaches to different tunes when I feel it is appropriate as someone suggested.  Good to know that many feel there "is no right or wrong way to play the  melodeon." Of course many tunes I now play cross rows anyway, problem solved. All is not lost! Sheila

[Gromit]

Given that the OP states she is playing D/G debates about the niceties of technique for ITM are probably rather wide of the mark

Probably true but there are a few D/G players around who can play an ITM tune or two  - Tim Edey and Mally (at least he played D/G when I knew him)

[Lyra]

I was told lifting was the way to go in the UK.
Then I went to France and was told it was an abomination and working on better bellows control was the thing.
So obviously, pick your horse, pick your course and maybe mix it up a bit for a giggle.

[Peadar]

I play Irish on a B/C where "staccato" is not what's required.
[/quote
 Who told you that?
 Admittedly there may be a bit less stress on staccato with the BC style, but I must say I've always thought it best to have some space between the notes, particularly with fast triplets which should sound as crisp and distinct as machinegun fire. In fact I've been wondering lately if I could play Irish more legato and have found it very difficult and really not to my taste.
quote]


Irish music isn't just dance music you know....and from what I can make out of the origins of the D/G circa 1949 that key choice was probably partly driven by the Irish influences on English Country Dancing in places like Morpeth (aka Sin City), where the North Country Rant step was universal and carried the same rythm as the Scottish Country Dancer's pah-de-bah/pas de basque step just over the border.
One of the wonderful things to me about the bogsa-ciuil/melodeon/organetto is the way it has been adopted into the traditional music of so many nations. Just 'cos most Irishmen play B/C and B/C is also the most common tuning in Scottish Gaelic music doesn't mean you can't use other tunings and it doesn't mean you can't use a 4th step box for Irish music.
If you use the box as a sing along instrument in English or Gaelic staccato isn't where it's at.

[Vector]

this is very interesting to me as a BC ITM man - I've never thought of purposely playing detached staccato - I approach everything I play with the aim of being lyrical - smooth - essentially slurred -- I'm not familiar with English folk music played on a the button accordion, though --

I would think it would be difficult to play everything staccato - no slurring? no legato?

[Peadar]

Has it occurred to anyone else that holding down a button when the bellows change direction also helps you to hold on to the box.

[Stiamh]

Has it occurred to anyone else that holding down a button when the bellows change direction also helps you to hold on to the box.

I'll remember that in case I ever get thrown out of a plane with a melodeon for a parachute.

[boxcall]

Has it occurred to anyone else that holding down a button when the bellows change direction also helps you to hold on to the box.

I'll remember that in case I ever get thrown out of a plane with a melodeon for a parachute.

You might even be tempted to use more fingers

[Jesse Smith]

Hi Sheila,

The first thing that I would say is that there is never a disadvantage to learning more techniques, so that you can choose between them as best suits the tune that you are trying to play.

Having said that, unless I am trying to play *extremely* staccato (with clear silence between each note), I generally just hold down the button and reverse the bellows to play the notes. This isn't really legato - obviously there's a point where you stop pushing and start pulling (or vice versa) and neither reed is sounding. I find that the natural bounciness of the push-pull movement provides enough crispness, and not having to finger each note individually makes it easier to play faster passages up and down the row. I don't think it is "sloppy" or bad technique.

To play truly legato, one would want to play across the rows, which gives you the option of slurring both notes together by very briefly having both buttons pressed simultaneously. But I think that's rarely desired in English dance music. And actually, it's when you play that way that you might in fact want to be extra careful about lifting each finger up, so you don't accidentally end up with two adjacent notes sounding at once.

John Spiers has posted in a previous thread like this in full-throated defense of letting the bellows change the notes, and if you watch videos of John Kirkpatrick playing the melodeon, he tends to do this quite consistently as well. If it's good enough for those folks, it's good enough for me!

But again, it is always best to be able to do it either way, depending on the needs of the tune.

[Chris Ryall]

I am very much a cross row player, and it’s so nice not to be knocked down for championing that style  in the forum. But in the end all ways are right, and over in France they quite admire the punch of the english style!

My own journey over the last decade has been very much a mive from dance tunes, to song, and I’ve been trying go apply some of the percussive techniques of English guitar style onto melodeon. The key to that has been frankly … bellows! and playing in chords. The latter naturally involve cross rowing.

I like sus effects and very often lay a finger across the rows over 2 buttons. Then move the bass note against the  touching notes. Even more scandekous … 2 fingers across 4 buttons  producing a smudge of sound as an alternative to a turnaround chord. I’ve recently learned that’s called a “cluster chord”, it even gets used in classical music! So perfectly kosher 

I'd also echo Jesse’s comment. It’s amazing how often that a simple change in bellow direction does the trick on our instrument!

Playing for dance, or dance tunes … I cross row and try to keep it clean.

So don’t lose sleep about it. Practice what works for you, and try to avoid slurring your tune into a porridge. The simplest way to do that if frankly to consciously include some silence between music phrases.