Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes  (Read 4317 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

malcolmbebb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2540
  • In dampest Dorset, on the soggy south coast.
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2019, 06:18:33 PM »

So, just the trigs of the trade then?
Logged
Dino BPII.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire."

GPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3149
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2019, 06:20:16 PM »

A mathematician, somewhere used  this guide, which works up to a point:

So shouldn't jigs go "decimal decimal decimal decimal"?

Sorry, couldn't resist ........
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4941
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2019, 07:34:15 PM »

As I understand, a hornpipe was a tune played on a horn pipe.
When people danced to it, a step type dance, not a social dance,  they danced a hornpipe.

A famous actor in London in the 1600's was playing a sailor in the theatre production, and when he danced, he danced a hornpipe. The hornpipe was thus ever linked to sailors.
Back to the tunes.....
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2613
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2019, 07:39:33 PM »

A mathematician, somewhere used  this guide, which works up to a point:

So shouldn't jigs go "decimal decimal decimal decimal"?

Sorry, couldn't resist ........

That'll be double jigs.

Single jigs go: 1 off, 1 off, now I've got two of them.
[Actually, that must be a double jig as well]
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 07:48:29 PM by Tone Dumb Greg »
Logged
Greg Smith
DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, CF Hohner, Pressed Wood 1040C

Clive Williams

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2960
    • Home Page
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2019, 08:14:26 PM »

Hi Clive, for those of us (or maybe it's just me!) who couldn't tell a hornpipe from from a drainpipe, how about one or two sound files of the genre to help us on our way?

As ever, please interpret the theme as loosely as you can; anything even slightly related to a hornpipe counts. That can mean any tune which actually is, anything you *suspect*  is, or anything with hornpipe in the title which quite blatantly isn't. All is good!

David Summers

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 145
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2019, 12:31:12 PM »

Another though, what about 'Our Cat has Kitted' a Joseph Kershaw tune, based on Cheshire Rounds.
Logged

GPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3149
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2019, 01:15:45 PM »

Part of the problem with what constitutes a "hornpipe" is that the term actually denotes a dance, not a tune, and over the last couple of centuries has been used in various contexts to mean a number of different dance genres in a number of time-signatures.  No simple answer, I'm afraid......

Graham
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2613
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2019, 02:02:34 PM »

Part of the problem with what constitutes a "hornpipe" is that the term actually denotes a dance, not a tune

you could  go further and say it is a tune tune played upon a particular musical instrument. Once common.
Logged
Greg Smith
DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, CF Hohner, Pressed Wood 1040C

GPS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3149
  • MAD as a wet Hohner........
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2019, 02:45:06 PM »

Part of the problem with what constitutes a "hornpipe" is that the term actually denotes a dance, not a tune

you could  go further and say it is a tune tune played upon a particular musical instrument. Once common.

True - in which case almost any tune could qualify!!  ;D
Logged
Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2613
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2019, 05:34:10 PM »

Part of the problem with what constitutes a "hornpipe" is that the term actually denotes a dance, not a tune

you could  go further and say it is a tune tune played upon a particular musical instrument. Once common.

True - in which case almost any tune could qualify!!  ;D

But only when it's played on a hornpipe.
Logged
Greg Smith
DG Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, CF Hohner, Pressed Wood 1040C

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6464
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2019, 05:36:41 PM »

Another though, what about 'Our Cat has Kitted' a Joseph Kershaw tune, based on Cheshire Rounds.
What about it? it's a great triple time (3/2) hornpipe. So yes - it's a hornpipe!  (:)
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Hugh Taylor

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 243
    • Band web site: http://www.tumblingtom.co.uk
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2019, 06:12:10 PM »

I'm amazed at this discussion of what constitutes a hornpipe. Surely we don't need to define one, and equally surely we can all recognise one when we hear one. I can't remember a discussion on what constitutes a jig, though I remember starting a thread on the difference between a polka, rant, schottische, and reel. 
For those who want some historical information, check out this piece on the Triple Time Hornpipe from 15150 to 1800 by Pete Stewart -
https://www.academia.edu/1492605/The_triple_Time_Hornpipe
Logged
Castagnari Mory D/G, Castagnari Tommy D/G, Saltarelle C/F
Tumbling Tom Band

Eshed

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2019, 07:01:26 PM »

...and equally surely we can all recognise one when we hear one.
:-[ I'm really not sure I can.
I can recgonise time signatures which makes jigs quite obvious (ignoring slides), but regular hornpipes are an entirely different matter.
Logged
I'm playing all the wrong notes but not necessarily in the wrong order.

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2851
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2019, 08:09:59 PM »

...and equally surely we can all recognise one when we hear one.
:-[ I'm really not sure I can.
I can recgonise time signatures which makes jigs quite obvious (ignoring slides), but regular hornpipes are an entirely different matter.
I'm with Eshed here. As it happens, what makes a hornpipe isn't something that bothers me, but I applaud people for keeping on asking until they get something they understand. I remember asking a friend of mine about recipes for making your own fresh pasta, and he said you don't need a recipe, it's obvious. But when I asked about double 00 flour, or whether there's any oil, just water etc. he said, 'haven't got a clue, my wife makes it'. I got my recipe, but never mastered making it well enough to want to eat it.
So far it seems there is no definitive answer to what makes a hornpipe a hornpipe, so it was a better question than it might have appeared.
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Castagnari Sander DG

Clive Williams

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2960
    • Home Page
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2019, 08:31:13 PM »

They're quite different from tradition to tradition, so no, there is no easy definition. I would say an Irish hornpipe is quite a different feel to an English one, for example. But really, you're overthinking things people! :-) Do whatever you think appropriate to the theme.

But since we're asking, I define tune types by examples of tunes of that style, so L'Inconnu for mazurkas, La Marianne for waltzes, and (thinks...) Lemmie Brazil's No. 2 for the hop-step style of english hornpipe.

Cheers,

Clive

smiley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 741
  • Folk music: it's not as bad as it sounds
    • a few sound clips
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2019, 10:00:56 PM »

Here's a hornpipe that was played for step dancing in the nineteenth century and had been handed down to Kath McCaughey from her mother.  Kath called it a 'Breakdown' when she was recorded in old age playing the tune on melodeon in northern NSW by Dave de Hugard. Evidently competitive step dancing was very popular right up until the 1940's in Australia and at times a musician would need to play these tunes quite flat and fast until a winner was eventually decided.

I'm playing the tune to suit a hornpipe danced by Irish set dancers. Sorry about the button clacking on my 1930's Hohner Erika D/G - I should do something about that I suppose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEAykL20v24
Logged

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6464
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2019, 11:33:13 PM »

and (thinks...) Lemmie Brazil's No. 2 for the hop-step style of english hornpipe.
No it's not - it's a schottische!  >:E
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3059
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2019, 12:15:04 AM »

Here's a hornpipe that was played for step dancing in the nineteenth century and had been handed down to Kath McCaughey from her mother.  Kath called it a 'Breakdown' when she was recorded in old age playing the tune on melodeon in northern NSW by Dave de Hugard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEAykL20v24

Thank you. A charming wee tune, nicely played, and very danceable I'd say.
Logged
Senior member at meoldone.net

www.rogermillington.com

Clive Williams

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2960
    • Home Page
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2019, 10:03:45 AM »

and (thinks...) Lemmie Brazil's No. 2 for the hop-step style of english hornpipe.
No it's not - it's a schottische!  >:E

Oh you :-)

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11565
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: Theme of the Month for November 2019: Hornpipes
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2019, 01:30:44 PM »

Even setting 3/2s aside there is not just one type of hornpipe.  The Tyneside dotted hornpipe is quite distinctive, but some of the non-dotted style can easily become more like Scottiches or reels if played a bit faster.  Some have hornpipe in the name but are often played in another style,  Winshields hornpipe is an example.  There are also regional differences in the way they are played.
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal