Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?  (Read 5362 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jesse Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 726
  • Buffalo, NY, USA
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2019, 04:23:20 PM »

Just a guess as I do not play either, but I think because the B/C/C# still maintains different notes on the push and pull, there is more opportunity to to play up-and-down the rows style with bellows reversals, so more like a basic melodeon with its inherent rhythmic drive. John Kirkpatrick is the master of this on his British Chromatic B/C/C# box.

Yes, I think JK confirms this in his article referenced above. I think it is fair to say JK plays the B/C/C# in a very ideosyncratic way, intentionally choosing buttons in order to maximize bellows reversals, or at least place them where he wants them, whereas most players of such a heavy box would seek to minimize reversals.

Personally if I felt limited by the two row melodeon something with a unisonoric stradella bass would be the way to go. Whether B/C/C# would be the answer? Well, I would definitely be self-taught. It's already an odd bird who plays a D/G melodeon in the United States; I suspect players of the B/C/C# might number among single digits in the States! Still, having the option to play in a push/pull fashion with a Stradella bass is appealing.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 06:29:55 PM by Jesse Smith »
Logged
Hohner Pokerwork D/G (x2!), Hohner one row four stops in D and C, Hohner Presswood C/F.

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2019, 06:18:12 PM »

I worked it out for myself  a long time ago  with the aid of a keyboard chart   starting with G and when I could play some tunes in that and skip up ;and down the scale I had a go at D.   I used a piano accordion tutor book ( bought from a jumble sale) to provide me with with the basics of stradella bass  .  The key to learning the BCC#  is to stick to the BC rows  for FCGDAE  or at least CGDA  and to not bring in the 'alternatives' on the C# row until you can play reasonably on 2 rows.  Bringing in the third row makes life easier not harder providing its done with one alternative note at a time.  For the BC rows there are a number of tutor books available . I have put a series of 'key charts' on the button box forum that show alternative ways of playing the scales using two rows or three rows.

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

Jesse Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 726
  • Buffalo, NY, USA
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2019, 06:54:19 PM »

One thing that strikes me as unfortunate about the B/C/C# is that even with all those rows you can't play a complete G chord on the right hand. Not a deal breaker but kind of irritating given the typical keys of the repertoire.
Logged
Hohner Pokerwork D/G (x2!), Hohner one row four stops in D and C, Hohner Presswood C/F.

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2019, 11:22:49 PM »

its never bothered me  and nobody has ever noticed  the lack of D  when playing GBG and of course the full G maj is available on the bass. It never seemed a problem for Sir Jimmy Shand so why should I worry about it!

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

Pat.

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2019, 06:27:14 AM »

To anyone thinking of taking the jump into B/C/C# ,my advice is try before you buy,  its easy to get inspired by seeing someone else who knows what they are doing at point of purchase  .You need at least a couple of hours by yourself,at this point most people will say #*#* this. A few however will take to it ,but try first.
Logged

JohnS

  • Good talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2019, 07:48:47 AM »

If you're an along-the-rows player then any attempt at cross-rowing is probably going to entail weeks or months of #*#* this before it starts to make sense.  Thing is with B/C/C# you're going to have buy second-hand anyway unless you want to fork out 4 grand for a Manfrini.  So buy carefully and you can get your money back if #*#* this turns out to be the final answer. 

A quint box player who is already cross-rowing to smooth out the phrasing would have an easier time.
Logged

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2019, 12:14:36 PM »

probably the cheapest way for a DG  etc player thinking of adding a BCC# box  is to buy a cheap BC as they crop up regulary on ebay   eg a hohner double ray or double ray delux (3 voice)    plus a BC tutor book.    If  playing in G , D and possibly A can be got the hang of  then   a BCC# will actually be easier to play than a 2 row. .  My initial learning was on a BC as DG's hadn't been invented.   Moving to a trichord  made tunes that had some tricky bits on the two row dead easy on the e3 row.

I agree with the advice not to spend a lot o a BCC#  without  trying one  whereas buying or better still borrowing a cheap BC , or CC#l  will enable the   water to be tested so to speak

george
   
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

richard.fleming

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 552
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2019, 01:25:25 PM »

Nice Paolo Soprani BCC# on Donedeal at the moment. Reasonable price too,  I think, though I don't follow the market for that particular tuning.
Logged
Old Paolo Sopranis in C#/D and D/D#

gettabettabox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 656
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2019, 03:06:14 PM »

Having a C Sharp row added onto a B/C box doesn't necessarily make things easier, it provides alternative fingering options and that might suit some or bewilder others? It will also have an impact on the sound dynamics, weigh more and generally be less responsive than a comparable two row.
Someone needs to tell the thousands of B/C players out there to get a three row, it's so much easier...??! Most of them know better ;)
Logged

gettabettabox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 656
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2019, 03:16:23 PM »

Can't believe that I've risen to this B/C/C sharp bait again.. ::)
Logged

Bill Young

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1140
  • Paolo Soprani BCC#
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2019, 03:21:41 PM »

Could someone knowledgable explain to me what the advantages are of a B/C/C# over a CBA?

I gave my thoughts on this in an earlier thread: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,24238.msg288894.html#msg288894
Logged

Bill Young

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1140
  • Paolo Soprani BCC#
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2019, 03:26:15 PM »

Anyone venturing to play the Stradella bass might benefit from buying my friend's book: https://buttonbox.org.uk/index.php/topic,650.0.html
Logged

Rog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2295
  • Repair and tuning in Hants
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2019, 05:09:02 PM »

Could someone knowledgable explain to me what the advantages are of a B/C/C# over a CBA?
I don’t think there are any worth mentioning.

waldoB

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2019, 06:16:04 PM »

4 1/2 Chromatic octave treble range using 34 buttons
Logged

Rog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2295
  • Repair and tuning in Hants
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2019, 06:42:03 PM »

Although mostly you only need 2 1/2 octaves, so having that range doesn’t necessarily give an advantage

waldoB

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2019, 07:02:09 PM »

Depends on playing style. If you add notes under - thirds, sixths, octaves etc. Add counter melodies, chords, or vary the tune by playing in different octaves, which all adds variety and interest,  the extra range is essential. Single note melody playing is always an alternative.
Logged

Rog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2295
  • Repair and tuning in Hants
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2019, 09:40:23 PM »

Well, yeah. But the 34 key PA works v well for most needs, if you want a 'light' PA, and that’s only 2 1/2 octaves.

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2019, 11:51:03 PM »

Could someone knowledgable explain to me what the advantages are of a B/C/C# over a CBA?
I don’t think there are any worth mentioning.

There are two, possibly dubious ,and certainly dubious to some, is  advantages of the BCC# over the continental chromatic/

1. The BCC # well and truly part of the 'melodeon' family

2. The BCC# provides more of a challenge than does a continental

I played a continental for about 5 years  instead of BCC# and went back to BCC# because I found the continental too easy  - much more sensible but not at all challenging and hence less satisfaction)  On the other hand if I ever have to  live in a retirement home or some such dwelling I would go for a Roland electronic CBA simply because it can be played in private through headphones

george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

melodeon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1732
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2019, 01:57:22 AM »

I recall many years ago in a Jimmy Shand interview where he said  that if he knew earlier about CBA, he would have played it rather than B,C,C#.
Logged

JohnS

  • Good talker
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 64
Re: Moving on from the melodeon- is the B/C/C# the right option?
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2019, 06:58:14 AM »

If you want to play Scottish dance music like Jimmy Shand, English music like John Kirkpatrick or ITM like Kevin Keegan then B/C/C# has the advantage that you can play exactly like them.  Skill permitting of course.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal