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Author Topic: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook  (Read 773 times)

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JohnAndy

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Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« on: December 07, 2019, 01:19:26 AM »

Northern Roots Tunebook

Thanks for posting this, Pete. Looks interesting, I'll have to have a look through some of these tunes.

[I'm posting this as a new topic in the ABC sub-forum because it's an ABC question; Pete's original post is in the Tunes parent forum)

For now, I just have an ABC question, maybe you can explain...

I noticed that in these tunes, the time signature gets repeated on every line. That looked a bit odd to me, and I wondered why it was happening.

I couldn't see any obvious reason, so I hacked one of the tunes and chopped stuff out until the repeated time signatures went away.

I found it was the use of two voices ("V1 gchord=down" and "V2") which seems to trigger this behaviour.

But why are two voices needed in the first place, and why does having them cause the time signatures to repeat? I'm mystified.

(I'm looking at the first tune, and I'm using ABCExplorer. But your PDF also shows the repeating time signatures, so it's not just something specific to my setup. And it does seem apply to lots of the other tunes as well, not just the first one)

If you could explain to me what's going on, I'd be very grateful!

Cheers, John
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Pete Dunk

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2019, 11:31:43 AM »

Well now, I can explain why I use the the two V: fields but not the side effect of the time signature appearing on every line of music, although I do have an observation.

Let's deal with the V: fields first. After a lifetime of reading chord symbols and little fretboard windows printed above each line of music (40 years playing guitar) I've grown used to the alternative style which seems to be the standard for 'accordion music', putting the chords below the stave and now I actually prefer it. To make this happen the header V:1 gchord=down is required. On its' own, this isn't good enough for Explorer (I use Explorer exclusively as my editor) which complains that the statement is illogical as there is only one V: field, adding a blank V:2 line satisfies the software. Every now and again (by no means always) pressing play to listen to the tune results in the play bar at the top scrolling frantically and no sound output, this puzzles me mightily and I have no idea why it is intermittent. The remedy is simple, after the K: field (end of headers, now everything is part of the body text) add V:1 to trigger the V:1 gchord=down statement:

M:4/4
L:1/8
%%titlefont Helvetica 22
%%subtitlefont Helvetica 16
%%composerfont Helvetica
%%partsfont Arial 20
%%partsbox
%%gchordfont Arial 16
%%barnumbers 1
%%MIDI program 73 % flute
%%MIDI chordprog 1 % piano
V:1 gchord=down
V:2
Q:1/4=160
K:D
V:1
P:A
|:FG|"D"A2A2 A2Bc|etc

Deleting the three V: statements gets rid of the extra time sigs (which also appear on the PDF output) and prints the chords above the stave in the 'normal' manner. My observation about this printing of the time signature on every line is that it appears to be an ABC Explorer 'quirk', this doesn't happen in Easy ABC. When things like this happen I tend to just live with it because I have no explantion and it appears to be software specific, not very satisfying I know, but there it is.


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JohnAndy

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 02:00:31 AM »

Well now, I can explain why I use the the two V: fields but not the side effect of the time signature appearing on every line of music, although I do have an observation.

OK, that makes sense. Thank you very much for the detailed explanation.
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Gandy

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2020, 04:44:50 PM »

To get that effect, chord symbols below the stave I put the stuff in this order.  Actual tune truncated for brevity.  So I'm just putting the second voice marker where a second voice would start, if there had been one.   Easy ABC appears to be happy with just the V:1 header, not sure what the standard says.

V:1 gchord-down
E|"Am"AA/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|
V:2

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Tony S

Pete Dunk

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2020, 10:56:57 PM »

Easy ABC appears to be happy with just the V:1 header, not sure what the standard says.

V:1 gchord-down
E|"Am"AA/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|
V:2


If you are writing this in the order shown it must appear after the K: field and is therefore body text not a header. Probably works if the syntax is correct although I've never tried it in that order.

V:1 gchord-down - are you sure about that? Again I haven't tried it and it's certainly not in the standard, the hyphen should be an equals (=) sign to the best of my knowledge V:1 gchord=down. Things sometimes work in abc that in theory shouldn't, it doesn't mean that they always will!
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Gandy

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 08:35:33 AM »

Sorry, that was a typo it should be gchord=down.  That's what comes of typing from memory rather than grabbing an actual ABC file.  However it appears that it's happy with the V:1 either before or after the K: key signature.  Maybe that makes sense allowing for different key signature for other voices?

Anyway here's a complete example which renders correctly with just V:1 and no second voice ...

Quote
X:65
T:Gilderoy
M:4/4
L:1/4
V:1 gchord=down
K:Am
E|"Am"AA/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2d/2c/2B/2 A/2B/2c/2A/2|"E7"B/2^G/2E/2E/2 EE/2G/2|
"Am"A/2^G/2A/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2a/2^g/2a/2 "E7"e/2d/2c/2B/2|"Am"cA A::
e/2f/2|"C"gg/2a/2 g/2f/2e/2f/2|"C"g/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2d/2c/2B/2 A/2B/2c/2A/2|"E7"B/2^G/2E/2E/2 EE/2G/2|
"Am"A/2^G/2A/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2a/2^g/2a/2 "E7"e/2d/2c/2B/2|"Am"cA A:|

I can't get ABC explorer to work at the moment but I am almost 100% sure that although it insists on a second voice, it's quite happy with just the V:2 field added at the end with no content.  Like this ...

Quote
X:65
T:Gilderoy
M:4/4
L:1/4
V:1 gchord=down
K:Am
E|"Am"AA/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2d/2c/2B/2 A/2B/2c/2A/2|"E7"B/2^G/2E/2E/2 EE/2G/2|
"Am"A/2^G/2A/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2a/2^g/2a/2 "E7"e/2d/2c/2B/2|"Am"cA A::
e/2f/2|"C"gg/2a/2 g/2f/2e/2f/2|"C"g/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2d/2c/2B/2 A/2B/2c/2A/2|"E7"B/2^G/2E/2E/2 EE/2G/2|
"Am"A/2^G/2A/2B/2 c/2B/2c/2d/2|"Am"e/2f/2e/2c/2 "G"dc/2d/2|\
"Am"e/2a/2^g/2a/2 "E7"e/2d/2c/2B/2|"Am"cA A:|
V:2
Edit - managed to get ABC Explorer to work and yes it is quite happy with that last format shown above.  If you remove the V:2 from the end it appears happy, but switch away from the tune and back again and it sometimes won't render.  It needs the second voice tag to keep it happy.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 04:15:05 PM by Gandy »
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Tony S

Pete Dunk

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 11:06:22 AM »

Agreed, if you look at one of my transcriptions V:1 and V:2 appear in the header for precisely that reason. They do seem to work well enough in the body text but I prefer to put them in the header, not least because I can then use the auto-text tool to insert my 'standard headers' into each file in one fell swoop, a matter of personal taste.
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Gandy

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2020, 12:04:27 PM »

I kind of lost track of the point I was trying to make, which is that the issue originally mentioned of the time signature appearing on every line, does not occur if you just have the one "V:1 gchord=down" tag.  And if your particular install of ABC Explorer objects, it can be placated by sticking a V:2 below the tune without re-introducing the issue.  I say "if" because I find ABC Explorer behaves differently from time to time, and between installs.  On the PC here it doesn't need that V:2 at all.

It also seems it may be specific to ABC Explorer, as Easy ABC doesn't show the issue. You can put as may V: tags as you wish without it changing the output of the first voice. 

So the answer seems to be, if you're bothered by time signature on each line, either use a different program to render or take the V:2 tag out.

I think I'm unclear on the distinction between "header" and "body".  I had thought for no particular reason that "header" would mean everything prior to the first note of the tune."  However I can see a logical distinction between settings that apply to the whole piece and settings which apply only to one part or one voice.
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Tony S

Pete Dunk

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Re: Question for Pete Dunk about the Northern Roots Tunebook
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2020, 04:05:52 PM »

[pedant]
From the X: field (which should be the first thing in the tune file) to the K: field (which should be the last entry in the header), defines the opening settings for the tune file. Everything after the first K: field is considered to be body text, part of the tune itself if you will. The body text often contains changes to the original settings but these are unique to the tune itself.

The extent to which anyone adheres to these outline principles, is of course down to the individual and the context. I've done quite a lot of transcriptions for The Village Music Project and a few for the EFDSS, so the ground rules for these almost achedemic transcriptions have become an ingrained habit with me. I do add a lot of additional headers etc to my other transcriptions but I still stick to the same broad outlines, so if you strip out the extras what's left would still be acceptable to the VMP etc.
[/pedant]  ;D
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