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[Anahata]

I think you might mean Andrew Swaine, who plays for Gog Magog Molly and is certainly a good PA player and a notable exception to the "English PA = mush" rule.

[IanD]

I think you might mean Andrew Swaine, who plays for Gog Magog Molly and is certainly a good PA player and a notable exception to the "English PA = mush" rule.

Yep, that's him :-)

[and it was Gog Magog, my mistake...]

[george garside]

what Ian said!   on a piano its how you press the keys that matters - on a piano ( or continental) box its how you let go of them that's vitaly important  as it is of course on a 'diatonic' box

george

[Helena Handcart]

The problem with many PA players is that they don't realise that the gaps between the notes (which come for free on a diatonic, if you don't cross the rows to distraction) are at least as important as the notes, if not more so -- this is what turns it into a musical mush

This, exactly this.  There are a few very good PA players on the circuit and when I do hear one it is joyful, unfortunately too many of them seem be the default 'well I played piano at school and this is just the same right?' school of thought.

It is much easier to get the gaps between the notes on a diatonic instrument where the lumps are, to a high degree, already built in.

[Peadar]

There are many brilliant PA players in Scotland - all of them playing traditional Scottish music- and, quite apart from the strictish timing of those who are in demand for SCD in a wide variety of regional styles.

My only problem with the PA is that I never learnt to play it ....I own 2....but one of them hasn't been seen since I lent it to the church organist to try "for a month" (The other one is a Mignon....just so that there's a piano box in the house for visiting PA players if they get desperate).

[george garside]

how to 'play the gaps' is something I teach would be piano box players fairly early in the proceedings  as I do when teaching 'melodeon'  as some melodeon players  don't play the gaps despite the built in 'lumps'.  There are a fair few  that  play  somewhat turgidly

george

[Chris Rayner]

what Ian said!   on a piano its how you press the keys that matters - on a piano ( or continental) box its how you let go of them that's vitaly important  as it is of course on a 'diatonic' box

george

Debussy, not a name to spring immediately to mind in discussion of highly rhythmic dance music; anyway, him.  He is quoted as saying that music is the gaps between the notes.  Only in French obvs.

I think other musicians have made similar observations.

[IanD]

what Ian said!   on a piano its how you press the keys that matters - on a piano ( or continental) box its how you let go of them that's vitaly important  as it is of course on a 'diatonic' box

george

Debussy, not a name to spring immediately to mind in discussion of highly rhythmic dance music; anyway, him.  He is quoted as saying that music is the gaps between the notes.  Only in French obvs.

I think other musicians have made similar observations.

Maybe we have a new definition of a musician -- one who plays an instrument and realises that the gaps are at least as important as the notes... ;-)

[Broadland Boy]

Oh no, the terrible secret finally revealed, not only have we to get all the right notes in all the right places, but the right gaps as well ?? What if you are gap deaf ?? I suppose it must be possible as Bach playing Bandoneon players seem to manage - maybe the aspect ratio of the bellow sides is the answer.

Happy and healthy New Year and Decade one and all 

[Thrupenny Bit]

I think Debussy and the ensembled mass here are bang on.
It annoys me intensely when at times in my local session the mass bank of fiddles go off on one, going from tune to tune at speed ..... and no gaps 
It isn't just PA's
Grrrrrr
Q

[Anahata]

It annoys me intensely when at times in my local session the mass bank of fiddles go off on one, going from tune to tune at speed ..... and no gaps 
It isn't just PA's

Fiddles can't do the wall of bass-and-chord mush that a badly played PA can, though.
And if there has to be many of one type of instrument in a session, lots of fiddles well played can be far more satisfying than lots of squeezeboxes of any type.
The real danger with fiddles is that once they reach a critical mass, they start playing in the key of A...

[george garside]

Artur   Schnbel, apparently a well known German concert pianist is quoted as saying  '' the notes I handle no better than many pianists, but the pauses between the notes - Ah, that is where the art resides'

I totally agree with him and have included that quote in my DG Tutor book as it is every bit as important to melodeon players as it is to pianists.  Playing the gaps simply means shortening either the note before or the note after 'the gap' or indeed taking a midge off both. It does not in anyway alter the timing ( in foot tapping terms) of a tune in any way.  There are also no 'rules' as to where and how long or short the gaps should be  and it is entirely down to the skill of the individual player  i'e the 'gaps' are shorter than musical 'rests'  Geting it something like right involves detail listening to what is coming out of the box together with some experimentation  to get it to your liking.

george


george

[Julian S]

Having been the lone melodeon player at a Fiddle weekend (at Halsway)- reckon it's a lot better than vice versa !
I didn't hear any complaints (or maybe they were just too polite)

J

[Helena Handcart]

It isn't just PA's

Fiddles can't do the wall of bass-and-chord mush that a badly played PA can, though.

I've never been annoyed by a mass of fiddles... but one PA played badly is just awful.  Not just PAs though, those chromatic button-y things are just as bad, probably due to the same lack of built-in gaps and lumps.

[Thrupenny Bit]

Fair enough Anahata.
I think my gripe with fiddles in this situation ( not all I hasten to add! ) is the speed thing.
I popped into a lovely session at Sidmouth this year where the fiddles were an absolute joy to play with, expressive... and no speed freaks.

I am aware though of a regular PA player who is a classic mush player, and and Helena says, it is annoying.
To balance this, as a occasional Loose Knit band session attendee at Sidmouth, there is a PA player who really plays well, with feeling and crisp too. They aren't all mushy!
Q

[Helena Handcart]

To balance this, as a occasional Loose Knit band session attendee at Sidmouth, there is a PA player who really plays well, with feeling and crisp too. They aren't all mushy!
Q

There's also one in there that balances him out  - grabs a handful of notes, plays far too fast and with no gaps. Luckily he's not there too often.

[playandteach]

Stran

There's also one in there that balances him out  - grabs a handful of notes, plays far too fast and with no gaps. Luckily he's not there too often.

Why do I feel guilty, even though I wasn't there, and don't currently own a PA?

[Chris Rayner]

Artur   Schnbel, apparently a well known German concert pianist is quoted as saying  '' the notes I handle no better than many pianists, but the pauses between the notes - Ah, that is where the art resides'

Schnabel, that’s the man.  Couldn’t remember his name.  Thanks.

[Anahata]

There's also one in there that balances him out  - grabs a handful of notes, plays far too fast and with no gaps.

Why do I feel guilty, even though I wasn't there, and don't currently own a PA?

I can't imagine. You don't play like that, and even if you had a PA I'm willing to bet you still wouldn't!

[Thrupenny Bit]

Helena, I suspect strongly that my regular 'mushy' player and your one mentioned are the same.... 
Q