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Author Topic: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards  (Read 1292 times)

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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2019, 01:44:11 AM »

In Charles Wheatstone's patent of 1844 for improvements of the concertina, he describes a system where a moveable metal block can be made to contact the reed tongue part-way along its length, thus changing the pitch of the reed on the fly. A bit like using your finger to stop the string on a fiddle or guitar.

Perhaps this is a foolish question: would something like this actually sound ok?
Not a foolish question at all! But I don't think it would sound OK. There would be tonal differences when the reed was in its shorted state and I'm not convinced that the moveable block would ever clamp the shortened reed securely and rigidly enough to prevent buzzing and poor intonation (and I write as having recently spent several hours searching out and shimming loose concertina reeds securely into their dovetail slots to remedy such faults!). If it were a viable method and mechanism, it would have survived. That fact that it never became established as a concertina construction method should tell you something. Unfortunately, I think this belongs in the same category as Brunel's ill-fated Atmospheric Railway - a potentially good idea but the technical and practical difficulties of the design were overwhelmingly against any degree of operational success.

Quote
(I'm assuming the instrument in the video is actually changing between one set of reeds and another, rather than doing something like this)
Yes, I think so too. I suspect that the button mechanism beneath the keyboard engages a stop slider or perhaps another pallet which redirects the air into another, separate, reed block. In the video of Loïc Etienne playing (see original post) the dimensions of the RH wood cabinet appear larger than would normally be expected for a one-row instrument and I think this is to house the additional reed blocks and mechanism. Also, the sound of the modified scale has good intonation and consistent tremolo, something you could only reliably achieve by using dedicated reeds for those notes. But I would love to know for sure.

Quote
I've been wondering about this as a methodology - does attempting to secure a reed higher up than its existing rivet function in any way as a tuning technique when reeds need adjusting significantly & non-destructibly upwards? (compared with, say, reed clipping)
No - I don't think it is viable, for reasons already stated. Incidentally, you don't 'clip' reeds to change the pitch. But I think you know that really ;) .
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Julian S

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2019, 06:54:22 AM »

Enduring another sleepless night I was thinking about how the buttons might work and concluded that having two sets of adjacent reeds, with switching as suggested by Steve would work. If the pallets were all wider, then I suppose that there might be space for the extra reeds, but as to how the individual sliders might operate...I did think of a completely impractical two lever system where the button could (somehow) engage a link between button and seperate pallets..as you might guess my engineering knowledge is next to nothing ! And I also wondered what the button closer to the bellows side of the fingerboard is for.
But clearly it's all very clever.

J
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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2019, 09:51:58 AM »

I did think of a completely impractical two lever system where the button could (somehow) engage a link between button and separate pallets..

That's exactly what happens in a Stradella bass, so it's not a completely silly idea, but you need a lot of space for the mechanism.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2019, 10:31:25 AM »

I wonder what the logic of the system is. I am finding it very hard to imagine what it actually does.
Does pressing a button disengage one note  and engage another? Does it switch to a different mode or key? Do notes change on the push and/or the pull? Does each switch it have detent, or is it momentary, or both, depending on how much it is depressed? If it does have detent, how is it reset (difficult to pull it out)? Do you press a different button (the one on its own, maybe)? If it does engage a different note, which note-a sharp or a flat?  Does it do something completely different?
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Kay

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2019, 10:55:09 AM »

Here is the soundboard  ;)
It should be noted that the button-to-pallet hole ratio could intensify the confusion, but since the main key of the box is Dmaj the f#/c#  button is bearing a few more options of course.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 11:16:27 AM by Kay »
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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2019, 01:07:25 PM »

 :|bl :|bl :|bl :|bl
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2019, 02:37:56 PM »

Here is the soundboard  ;)
It should be noted that the button-to-pallet hole ratio could intensify the confusion, but since the main key of the box is Dmaj the f#/c#  button is bearing a few more options of course.
Thank you Kay!
So - the extra pallet board holes indicate an extra set of reeds in an additional reed block, as we surmised.
Please would it be possible to post a photo of the pallets and lever arms, showing how they are actuated by the buttons underneath the keyboard? Thanks!
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Julian S

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2019, 04:34:27 PM »

Interesting - 10 buttons - there appears to be 12 lines of holes ?

J
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2019, 10:47:36 AM »

In a folk context you only need to change “some” of the notes for a mode (that includes major v minor) switchable rt end, and you don’t have to support rhe more obscure modes such as lochrian and melodic minor stuff, super lochrian etc. Also some will be one way, and can share a slot. And some changed notes will be on other keyboard, or with the accs.

But it gets very complicated, very quickly.    Genius if the luthier has cracked it. Who is he?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 10:50:12 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2019, 11:00:09 AM »

...Genius if the luthier has cracked it. Who is he?

His box is pretty new and made by Jérémie Vanglabeke.
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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2019, 09:56:52 PM »

Sorry to be misunderstood, I’d picked up on the name.

 Meant to enqure more about the fella, new to me 🙂
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tirpous

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2019, 01:18:28 AM »

Jérémie has a web site https://www.accordeon-essouffle.fr/index.php.  And a Facebook page, where I see he sometimes collaborates with maker Tania Rutkowski.
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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2019, 02:02:25 PM »

Gosh, WHAT a range!   

  https://www.accordeon-essouffle.fr/telechargement/tableau-modeles_vanglabeke-tarifs.pdf

But which model is it? None seems to fit the description on page 1 of this thread
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Julian S

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2019, 02:32:13 PM »

Gosh, WHAT a range!   

  https://www.accordeon-essouffle.fr/telechargement/tableau-modeles_vanglabeke-tarifs.pdf

But which model is it? None seems to fit the description on page 1 of this thread

Yes - reckon it was very much the result of a one - off special order.
I think I'd prefer to go for a two row - with one row being effectively the accidentals, but can someone explain the advantages of this approach to me being of small brain ?

J
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Gary Chapin

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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2019, 06:25:17 PM »

I don't see any one-rows in that catalogue. Hm.

I can only explain why it's interesting to me, Julian. I love one-row playing, only slightly less than two-row (8 bass) playing. There's something about the one-row that feels complete and intuitive. When playing with droning instruments, though, you find yourself needing to play in a number of versions of the same key (G maj, G min, G mix, or whatever). So, by changing one or two intervals, you can have all of these options, and if you have basses without thirds you can really get a full sound going. That's why I find it intriguing.
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Re: Loïc Etienne – Marche de l’Anglards
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2019, 11:26:52 AM »

Same fingering to play in C, in Cm (mode of Eb), Cm dorian (mode of Bb), C mixolydian (mode of F) even the Arab C modes of Ab …

If your left end is simple tonic+5th the chords there still work, throughout! A miracle, albeit not so useful in British pub sessions.

Loïc plays with bagpipes and gurdies, who both have a fixed drone, but then vary the non drone notes on chanter or keyboard in … all manner of ways. Basically he’s fallen into step with his comrades, specifically the group Comrad, rather than lug 3-4 different boxes around to get at these “parallel” modes.

Yes, all doable on a 3 row, but needs at least 12, ideally 18 bass.
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