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Author Topic: B/C Melodeon  (Read 4149 times)

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Graham Wood

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2020, 07:09:49 PM »

Thank you all for the advice and for the RH Chord chart. I did start off with my thumb on the air button but kept inadvertently operating it. I guess you can operate it and play at the same time to mellow the notes but that is way beyond my ability to get right at the moment. Still concentrating on which bass notes to play. So for now I hover near it (when I remember) but don't actually touch it unless I need it (by which time it's generally too late...lol)

I generally practice about an hour each day on the box. I have other musical commitments which means I have to pick a guitar up or play the keyboard occasionally.

With regard to playing across the rows, that will be my next project. I want to learn Sharon Shannons 'Blackbird'. So far I've discovered that the chords are D G C A and it kicks off in F# and that's by ear because I can't find sheet music . It will probably take months to get up to speed and probably never with the same finesse as the original artist, but it's something I want to do.

Because of the learning curve I will start on the Damien Connolly book which finally arrived today and work through it concurrently. A quick flick through it and it seems just what I need. I don't recognise any of the tunes though. I don't want to be tied to learning one song and losing my way through frustration. I think working on something and then finishing off the session with something I can play well means I'll always come back to the instrument and never lose faith.

In the old days I learnt guitar by playing 45's records at 33.3 and then working out the transposition. We've moved on since then and I can play most tunes on a keyboard by ear. Because it's a Korg Workstation I can record what I play as a midi file and play it back at whatever speed I want and follow it on the box. This is probably what I will do with 'Blackbird'. Trying to pick out the notes directly on the box would be a bit of a nightmare at my stage.

Thanks again.

Graham



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Pearse Rossa

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #81 on: January 13, 2020, 10:12:23 PM »

Quote
I want to learn Sharon Shannons 'Blackbird'.

It's a very simple wee throwaway tune really.
You certainly don't need sheet music for it.
In fact, I would say it's a lot easier than the tune you played in your video earlier.
She plays it here on B/C, and on D/D# in this video.
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Barlow

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #82 on: January 13, 2020, 11:54:06 PM »

With regard to playing across the rows, that will be my next project. I want to learn Sharon Shannons 'Blackbird'. So far I've discovered that the chords are D G C A and it kicks off in F# and that's by ear because I can't find sheet music . It will probably take months to get up to speed and probably never with the same finesse as the original artist, but it's something I want to do.

Another New Year passed and I have already broken one resolution: dump the dots and learn music by ear. 2021 will be the year.

Anyway...here is the music for Sharon Shannon's Blackbird: https://thesession.org/tunes/1844
It is played in various keys depending on which Youtube but this one is in D. (I have to admit I slowed it down to 0.5 to play along at first) 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bWqZQ-Ebw8

PS if you can get up to speed in months (6? 7? 8 or whatever) then that really is a meteoric rise (certainly by my standards anyway). Go for it!

PPS The next tune on that Youtube is The Happy One Step. It works well on the B/C. The music is on The Session. https://thesession.org/tunes/952
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 12:24:42 AM by Barlow »
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Graham Wood

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #83 on: January 13, 2020, 11:56:11 PM »

Quote
I want to learn Sharon Shannons 'Blackbird'.

It's a very simple wee throwaway tune really.
You certainly don't need sheet music for it.
In fact, I would say it's a lot easier than the tune you played in your video earlier.
She plays it here on B/C, and on D/D# in this video.

Yes I might have over estimated the complexity of it. It just seemed rather fast. I was working off this recording. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZVZ53CMso

Having spent an hour on it, it's not quite as difficult as I thought and have picked up the basic melody straight to the box. Just need to get up to speed and learn the subtleties that she puts into it.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2020, 01:09:07 AM »

Quote
Having spent an hour on it, it's not quite as difficult as I thought and have picked up the basic melody straight to the box. Just need to get up to speed and learn the subtleties that she puts into it.

Well now, the subtleties are a different matter. Those might take a week or two to get to grips with.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2020, 12:41:56 PM »

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Just need to get up to speed and learn the subtleties that she puts into it.

You might find this useful.
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Barlow

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2020, 01:54:01 PM »

The beginning of that video is interesting too, regarding major and minor bass chords.

I know someone who spent a few bob having the thirds removed. I have done similarly (only on the E chord for now) by sticking a piece of paper  under the third reeds? (happy to receive any comments/criticism regarding that).
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playandteach

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2020, 04:58:12 PM »

There's talk (as usual of course here) about tuning. I think that box on the video sounds just great from the tuning point of view.
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2020, 06:52:20 PM »

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Graham Wood

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2020, 08:45:52 PM »

Sharon is on fire in this video.

I'm all confused with this song. I've been following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZVZ53CMso assuming she is using a B/C box. But I don't think she is. It's in the key of D and starts of on f#. The underlying chord for f# is D but f# is on the push and the D chord is on the pull so you can't play them together. I'm not entirely sure which key to transpose it to so I can get the starting chord to match the starting note. It means I'll have to relearn the melody again. Ah well, all good practice. At least I'm playing across the rows.

Edit: At a guess I would say she is playing on a C#/D Box. Does such a thing exist? I don't really want to play this tune in C.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 09:02:53 PM by Graham Wood »
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Stiamh

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #90 on: January 22, 2020, 09:19:02 PM »

I'm all confused with this song. I've been following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZVZ53CMso assuming she is using a B/C box. But I don't think she is. It's in the key of D and starts of on f#. The underlying chord for f# is D but f# is on the push and the D chord is on the pull so you can't play them together. I'm not entirely sure which key to transpose it to so I can get the starting chord to match the starting note. It means I'll have to relearn the melody again. Ah well, all good practice. At least I'm playing across the rows.

Edit: At a guess I would say she is playing on a C#/D Box. Does such a thing exist? I don't really want to play this tune in C.

A C#/D box most certainly does exist (as my byline would suggest, but it's not as if other evidence is lacking). And Sharon Shannon often plays one. And to make matters more confusing, she often plays it "B/C style", meaning that tunes come out a tone higher than you would expect. In other words she is perfectly at home playing both systems.

Here, however, as far as I can tell by slowing down the playback speed and listening to the articulation, I would guess she is playing a C#/D box C#/D style. If I'm right, then to reproduce the effects she's getting exactly, you'd need to play it in C. (Or get a C#/D box of course.)

Two other points: 1. B/C bass systems were discussed earlier with reference to your box. If you have a "Paolo Soprani" layout then you are out of luck for a D push chord. But you could get such a layout modified easily (the "McComiskey modification") to give you a D push on the inner bottom bass pair. Other layouts that have a D push are the Joe Burke and John Nolan layouts.

2. Sharon Shannon practically never plays the basses, so to emulate her the lack of any particular chord is no handicap.  (:)

Oh, three points. 3. If you're serious about learning a semitone system, sooner or later you'll tackle tunes in many different keys (fingerings) so why not start now!  :|glug

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Graham Wood

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #91 on: January 22, 2020, 10:00:19 PM »

Many thanks Stiamh. Just tried it in C and there is a lot more pushing and pulling. I'll carry on in D on the B/C box. It's my learning box and I'm not going to change any layouts on it. Already getting on like a house on fire with this thing so will probably get something a bit more up market further down the road because I'm now totally hooked. And as you say, learning in lots of different keys is the way forward with a B/C box. I might be tempted to put in a guitar accompaniment on my Beginners Showcase debut just to fill this tune out a bit....lol
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2020, 12:59:49 AM »

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Sharon Shannon practically never plays the basses

She plays the basses here. Very tasty it is too.
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playandteach

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2020, 01:20:44 AM »

Great playing, but hardly touches the basses. No issue with that at all but expected to see some more heavy use because of the comment. Lovely to watch, and humbling.
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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2020, 03:04:49 AM »

Used sparingly. Certainly not heavy use. That's what I meant by 'tasty'.
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richard.fleming

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2020, 08:53:07 AM »

Sharon is on fire in this video.

I'm all confused with this song. I've been following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZVZ53CMso assuming she is using a B/C box. But I don't think she is. It's in the key of D and starts of on f#. The underlying chord for f# is D but f# is on the push and the D chord is on the pull so you can't play them together. I'm not entirely sure which key to transpose it to so I can get the starting chord to match the starting note. It means I'll have to relearn the melody again. Ah well, all good practice. At least I'm playing across the rows.

Edit: At a guess I would say she is playing on a C#/D Box. Does such a thing exist? I don't really want to play this tune in C.
My advice would be to play it in D. I'm sure she is playing it in D on a C#/D box. It would be very un-Irish to change the key in order to fit in with the basses, and anyway (I believe) it ought to be your top priority to learn to play in D and G on your BC box. C is a most unusual key in ITM. I can only think of a couple of tunes that get played in C. Playing in C at this stage will not support the development of BC playing  techniques. (In my opinion). I love your enthusiasm, by the way.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 09:44:34 AM by richard.fleming »
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george garside

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2020, 10:43:22 AM »

totally agree re learning to play in D and G but would add that also getting the hang of A is worth doing  ( and while your at it why not chuck in  F and E)

george
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george garside

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #97 on: January 23, 2020, 10:52:58 AM »

Great playing, but hardly touches the basses. No issue with that at all but expected to see some more heavy use because of the comment. Lovely to watch, and humbling.


on a BC and other 8 bass semitone boxes the ability to play harmonising bass is limited    particularly if playing in a range of keys.  However good players  generate excellent rhythm  within the melody as of course  to fiddle, whistle etc etc players.  For what its worth I think some, but of course not all, 4th apart players  are too heavy on the bass resulting in 'turgidity' rather than 'lift'

george
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2020, 12:29:51 PM »

I'm all confused with this song. I've been following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBZVZ53CMso

You should bear in mind that Sharon is not your typical B/C player.
The cailĂ­n is very much a free-spirited, independent musician.
She is not constrained by the 'normal conventions'.
Her style and certainly her repertoire (for the most part) would not be considered traditional in the strict sense.
There is nothing at all wrong with any of that of course, and nothing wrong with wanting to play her stuff.
As Stiamh and Richard have pointed out, she is playing a C#/D in that video.
My point is that if you want to get a handle on the typical Irish style of B/C playing, there are many other box players to learn from.





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playandteach

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Re: B/C Melodeon
« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2020, 12:55:09 PM »

Great playing, but hardly touches the basses. No issue with that at all but expected to see some more heavy use because of the comment. Lovely to watch, and humbling.
on a BC and other 8 bass semitone boxes the ability to play harmonising bass is limited    particularly if playing in a range of keys.  However good players  generate excellent rhythm  within the melody as of course  to fiddle, whistle etc etc players.  For what its worth I think some, but of course not all, 4th apart players  are too heavy on the bass resulting in 'turgidity' rather than 'lift'
george
I was just surprised as the video was linked as an example of her fine use of the basses.
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