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Author Topic: One row tunes  (Read 5356 times)

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boxcall

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2020, 08:54:56 PM »

isn't it more likely that the notes are intended to be G naturals, and any perceived sharpness is just a bit of sloppy intonation?

I do also happen to think that the G-sharps make musical sense and add to the character of the tune.


Adding them here and there.
P&T pasted the first take off the session site, the one bellow it on that site has a G# in the B part and the rest G nat.

when I listen to it  (not me but the tuning app.) using the app. the only time a g# shows is there in the Bpart.
all other notes showing up pretty clear and similar to, but I don't know this tune?


X: 2
T: Banks Of Kale Water
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
(3ABc)|d2[Af]e c2ec|BcdB AFDF|G2BG F2AF|EDEF GABc|
d2fe c2ec|BcdB AFDF|B2BG F2AF|EGFE D2(A2||
|:A)cef gf gz||Ace^g ag az|Acef g2gf|1 faec d2B2:|2 faec d2||


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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #101 on: February 14, 2020, 09:05:02 PM »

I wonder who wrote it...or is it Gan Am (or whatever that's called in Scotland, cue Peader), in which case it's wide  open to individual interpretation, in my very humble opinion.
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Greg Smith
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JohnAndy

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2020, 09:47:38 PM »

X: 2
T: Banks Of Kale Water
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
(3ABc)|d2[Af]e c2ec|BcdB AFDF|G2BG F2AF|EDEF GABc|
d2fe c2ec|BcdB AFDF|B2BG F2AF|EGFE D2(A2||
|:A)cef gf gz||Ace^g ag az|Acef g2gf|1 faec d2B2:|2 faec d2||

That version has the same A part as the Tom Hughes version but a completely different B part.

This would be my version:

X:4
T:Banks Of Kale Water
R:Reel
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Dmaj
Ac |: d2 fd c2 ec | B2 dB AFDF | G2 BG FGAf | gfed cdec |
d2 fd c2 ec | B2 dB AFDF | G2 BG FGAe |1 fedc d2 Ac :|2 fedc d2 dd ||
ba^gf edcA | a^gfe dcBA | ^gfed cABc |
d2 fd c2 ec | B2 dB AFDF | G2 BG FGAf | gfed cdec |
d/2d/2d fd c/2c/2c ec | B/2B/2B dB AFDF| G2 BG FGAe| fedc d2 |]

I added 3 G-sharps and changed one other note (last quaver before the 1st time bar, and same part of tune later on, where they are mostly playing an E rather than an A, though it's true an A is played by one of the players on one time through)
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JohnAndy

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2020, 09:53:44 PM »

could do with tempo guidance and whether it's swung or straight 8ths.

I noticed something interesting about the Tom Hughes version.

It starts off being swung and at a relatively deliberate pace.

It gets gradually faster and the quavers get more even towards the end.

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JohnAndy

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #104 on: February 14, 2020, 10:39:56 PM »

Oh dear! Maybe I got it wrong :-(

Or at least, I disagree with the expert.

I found a PDF available of a very interesting book on Tom Hughes' music, and it has transcriptions of his recorded tunes.

You can download it here: http://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf

See pages 86-87. Transcriber Peter Shepheard has all the notes in question as G-naturals.

In my defence, the text does also say "Tom was a little uncertain of the descending phrases in bars 9 to 11."

Anyway, I still like the G-sharps better!
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Jesse Smith

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #105 on: February 14, 2020, 10:59:03 PM »

JohnAndy, that looks like a great book. I think I'm going to read it through even though I don't play the fiddle! So much of our melodeon repertoire was written for the fiddle or evolved through it that it seems like a good idea to understand the nuances of the instrument better, if even just academically. And I have a couple of friends who do play it that I want to show this book to, so thanks for posting this!
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #106 on: February 14, 2020, 11:01:31 PM »

I can't get the link to work, or any links to the springthyme site. I'm in the UK.
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Greg Smith
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JohnAndy

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #107 on: February 14, 2020, 11:51:24 PM »

I can't get the link to work, or any links to the springthyme site. I'm in the UK.

Hmmm. I'm also in the UK, and it's still working for me. I'm using the Firefox browser. Also tried in Chrome, and that works too, but it says the site is "not secure". Maybe that's because the link uses the protocol prefix http:// and not https://.

You could try this link: https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf.

Or try connecting to the link using a different browser or from a different device?

Otherwise I don't know what to suggest.

Hope you'll be able to get it working.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2020, 12:08:10 AM »

I can't get the link to work, or any links to the springthyme site. I'm in the UK.

You could try this link: https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf.

nope. I don't get anything. It just sits there with a blank screen, which what happens when I try to google or Yahoo anything related to it. The links never seem to execute. Presumably it's a firewall thing, but it's not something I normally see. Just this site. I can get other Tom Hughes  stuff up in the UK, but nothing accessing a pdf, just a spiral bound copy, at £20. Which I am interested enough to consider, but I would rather  settle for a sanctioned pdf. I have become more interested in the provenance of the tune than a transcription of it.
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Greg Smith
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2020, 09:09:29 AM »

I would like to thank all those who came forward with offers of help with the Tom Hughes book. You are a superb group of people.

I finally worked out why I was struggling with it.

I looked in my download folder and discovered about 15 copies of the pdf there.

 :|bl :|bl :|bl

Every time I thought it hadn't worked and tried again it was downloading another copy.
I had made the totally incorrect assumption it was a link to a download site, not the pdf itself.
I am making an omelette for breakfast with all the egg I've scraped of my face.

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playandteach

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #110 on: February 21, 2020, 09:04:53 PM »

I don't think so. At that part of the fingerboard the G and G# aren't very close, and it would take quite a bit of sloppy playing to achieve that for a decent player.

Thanks, like I said I don't play the fiddle (or any of the fretless string family). I would really like to have a dabble with it someday, but I am honestly profoundly intimidated. The beauty of the melodeon is being able to press a button and squeeze and get the right pitch every time. With a fiddle it seems like it would take six months or more of practice just to be able to consistently produce a tolerably in tune sound.
I tried teaching myself enough violin to help my son pick a violin (he's now got a nice old French fiddle through that process). But I was horrified that you can even make open strings out of tune with the bowing pressure and placement.
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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #111 on: February 21, 2020, 09:23:53 PM »

Here's Banks of Kale Water, which I'll also link to in the 100 days thread, but not triplicate in the ThOTM. Slightly panicky at times, but holding on.
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Alan Morley

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2020, 05:29:40 PM »

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richard.fleming

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2020, 09:54:03 AM »

Great one row playing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgE9QVx6p9Y

Just noticed he plays with the flats of his fingers. You couldn't do that on a two-row box. Never seen it before. Is it purely personal or something the French do?
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Winston Smith

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2020, 10:51:13 AM »

I'm not French, and I do it. Mind you, you're right about not being able to do it on a 2 row. Perhaps that's why some boxes have stepped keyboards, to accommodate duffers like me?
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Mike Hirst

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2020, 12:57:28 PM »

Just noticed he plays with the flats of his fingers. You couldn't do that on a two-row box. Never seen it before. Is it purely personal or something the French do?

I'm sure this is a one row thing. I spent 10 years playing like this. It was only when I progressed to three row that I changed. It has to be said that early experience playing tin whistle and time spent in the company of pipers greatly influenced the finger patterns and decorations that I used.
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Peadar

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2020, 01:04:03 PM »

I'm not French, and I do it. Mind you, you're right about not being able to do it on a 2 row. Perhaps that's why some boxes have stepped keyboards, to accommodate duffers like me?
In my limited experience of 2 row instruments, open keyboards are stepped and closed keyboards are flush. The open keyboard instruments typically have a wooden  action and the action is quite high (Long travel of the key), which lets you obtain a volume tremelo on long notes. The key levers tops of the outer row are usually adjusted to lie flush with the inner row finger board surface. Any higher and the inner row key presses interfere with the outer row.

A Thumbstrap (relatively common on one rows) set up for the thumb to lie behind the fingerboard and pointing towards the bellows will tend to promote a flat fingering technique. Utterly foreign to fiddlers but very natural to pipers.
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Mike Hirst

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2020, 01:04:23 PM »

Further to my post re flat fingering, it is perhaps worth noting that playing spoon bass requires flat finger technique, as do the widely spaced bass buttons found on most one row four stop growl boxes.

This (flat finger technique) also my be a factor in the development of outside-in semitone boxes such as the French C/B arrangement and Irish American D/C#.

Edited to remove ambiguity. MH - Sun 23 Feb 14:06:01 GMT 2020.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 02:06:17 PM by Mike Hirst »
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Peadar

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2020, 01:18:22 PM »

Further to my post re flat fingering, it is perhaps worth noting that playing spoon bass requires flat finger technique, as do the widely spaced bass buttons found on most one row four stop growl boxes.

This also my be a factor in the development of outside-in semitone boxes such as the French C/B arrangement and Irish American D/C#.

Interesting comment. I really like spoon bass boxes but find them difficult to control compared  with trap door and inset basses
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: One row tunes
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2020, 12:38:53 AM »

I really like spoon bass boxes but find them difficult to control compared  with trap door and inset basses

Céard is brí leis sin a Pheadair?
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