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Author Topic: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?  (Read 3697 times)

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Peadar

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What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« on: January 12, 2020, 11:45:26 PM »

Anyone who wants to play old style boxes is going to have to get used to using a thumb strap because that's all they were ever fitted with.

The material ranging from oilskin, to leatherette backed webbing strap, to real leather

So what makes a thumbstrap well adjusted?
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gettabettabox

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 11:56:30 PM »

About the same principles as a well-adjusted trouser belt.  ;)
With comparable social consequences, too tight is restrictive, too loose and the tune falls down.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 11:58:38 PM by gettabettabox »
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playandteach

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 12:33:41 AM »

Anyone who wants to play old style boxes is going to have to get used to using a thumb strap because that's all they were ever fitted with.
I guess that doesn't mean they have to stay that way. I've got a comfortable set up on light two-row boxes - won't that do to use? But to answer the question, I suppose we have different sized thumbs and hands, and adjusting it for size, placement along the edge to accommodate bigger or smaller hands, and perhaps angles are all areas to tweak.
I think that we are ergonomically much more aware these days - multi adjustable office chairs for example. No point in being uncomfortable.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 12:39:10 AM by playandteach »
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tirpous

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 05:31:42 AM »

There was a fair bit of general discussion about thumbstraps in this thread http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22144.0.html which may be of interest.

What comes to my mind is:

- comfortable for the thumb
- places hand in such a way that all treble buttons can be reached conveniently
- solidly fastened to box
- no lost motion, so snug fit for thumb and strap preferably of fairly stiff material
- optimal fit will be player-specific, more so than for shoulder straps.  We all have different hands... trial-and-error is your friend ...

In the end, the well adjusted thumbstrap (just like well adjusted shoulder straps really) enables the player to comfortably control the box and fully use it.
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 08:22:16 AM »

Usually the general opinion about thumb straps is that they are well-adjusted when removed from the instrument and consigned to the waste bin.

But - as I say to my students and workshop attendees - there are no rules. Consider and try various options but ultimately do what best works for you.

If this means fitting brackets and shoulder-straps to an instrument which doesn't already have them, then so be it. No harm done, ergonomically it may better, and it may well make for improved stability and hence improved playing.

Personally speaking, the onset of arthritis in my RH thumb now makes it painful for me to use a thumb strap, even if I wanted to.
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Julian S

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2020, 08:35:11 AM »

I don't use a thumb strap, but it does strike me that some method of adjustment, like with bass end straps, would have benefits (though of course the actual location of the strap can be the problem as well as it's fit with the thumb)
J
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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2020, 09:23:53 AM »

A more flexible thumb, is the answer?

SJ
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george garside

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 10:37:54 AM »

see youtube jimmy shand melodeon solo  for a good example of  thumb strap use on a hohner Erica.

george
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 04:29:07 PM »

It's interesting that there is such an anti-thumbstrap sentiment prevalent among our members.  I think it really depends on one's style of play, the kind of music that is being played, and the type of instrument that it's being played on.  As a predominantly one-row player, I can tell you that after trying every strap arrangement possible (one shoulder strap, two shoulder straps, shoulder strap plus thumbstrap, box braced on outside leg, box braced inside leg, etc) I find the using the thumbstrap alone works best for me.  I actually find it the *least* constrictive out of all the options!  If you play in a fast push-pull style and you use a shoulder strap, I find that it requires keeping your body position a certain way (at least to some degree) in order to maintain tension on the strap, which I find restrictive and uncomfortable.  Using the thumbstrap alone and resting the box on my knee, my entire body is freed.

There is more to it than that, though.  One-rows have generally been used to play dance music, which it lends itself well to on account of its push and pull style of play.  The thumbstrap can actually allow one to achieve a kind of punchiness or 'snappiness' with certain styles that isn't always as adequately accomplished when using a shoulder strap alone.  It's a very subtle difference, but it's one that I noticed going back and forth between a thumbstrap and a shoulder strap.  It's also a sentiment that is shared by most one-row box players here in Quebec, where using a shoulder strap on a one-row is much less common.  I find my playing greatly improved when I ditched my reliance on the shoulder strap!

As Tirpous mentioned, it is essential that the thumbstrap is positioned in such a way that allows you to *comfortably* reach all of the notes.  There is a HUGE amount of room for adjustment in this regard.  A small adjustment can make a huge difference in comfort.  Personally, I've found that moving the thumbstrap up a little higher (closer to the chin) makes a big difference in reaching those first few notes but still being able to reach the ones on the other end.  For myself, I also find it essential that there is no lateral movement between my thumb and whatever part of the instrument it is being braced against (such as the edge of the keyboard, for example).  This way, whatever movement is made translates directly into playing as opposed to being wasted with trying to keep the box steady.
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Theo

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 04:45:28 PM »

Another little tip which doesn't seem to have been mentioned.  Some players use a rather longer thumbstrap so that the thumb can be put into the strap from above, then rotated 180º. This needs careful adjustment of the length of the thumbstrap and the leather needs to be quite flexible.
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Andrew Kennedy

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2020, 05:46:06 PM »

The best thumbstrap I have is on a 114 and is (I'm told) made from bagpipe leather.  Whatever the truth of that, it's very soft as well as being strong enough to have lasted over 30 years.
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Kimric Smythe

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2020, 06:27:09 PM »

I typically drill out the rivets on Honers and replace them with https://www.fastenersuperstore.com/products/tee-nuts-3-prong fitted from the inside of the keyboard. I trim off the spikes and glue them in place. You now have a threaded hole that allows for repeated adjustment.
 I use a soft tough leather from a fancy handbag I got at a second hand shop.
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2020, 06:32:42 PM »

I typically drill out the rivets on Honers and replace them with https://www.fastenersuperstore.com/products/tee-nuts-3-prong fitted from the inside of the keyboard. I trim off the spikes and glue them in place. You now have a threaded hole that allows for repeated adjustment.
 I use a soft tough leather from a fancy handbag I got at a second hand shop.

That is essentially what the maker of Mélodie accordions does with own instruments and with used Hohner 4-stops that he sells through his shop.
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Stotty

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2020, 06:41:17 PM »

I learnt to play on single rows with thumb straps as a youngster (without any sign of a shoulder straps), and I have carried on using a thumb strap.  My 1980s German pokerwork has a fabric reinforced "plastic" thumb strap and that was extremely uncomfortable when it had "sharp" edges. Now it is down to the bare fabric it is OK, and I have played for years with a single shoulder strap and thumb strap on the pokerwork and a number of other 2 row, 2 voice boxes.

What I have noticed is that single screw leather thumb straps (such as on the Boube, Lilly and Tommy) are much more adaptable and comfortable than the two rivet pokerwork thumb straps affairs on Hohners - I can now appreciate why people who start out playing with pokerworks don't like thumb straps because they are more restrictive than the "Italian" designs.

When I bought a Nuage I tried to manage without using a thumb strap for playing standing for dancing and I was just about coping with two shoulder straps.  However, I have since found that using two shoulder straps was causing pain in my left shoulder (I think because it was because the second strap was lifting the left hand end of the box too high).  I have now added a thumbstrap and reverted to a single shoulder strap, AND I have had a lot less trouble with my shoulder (Having eventually plucked up the courage to drill  screw hole!).

For what it is worth, with my hands I have found that with the Castagnari/Saltarelle thumb straps, which seem to be about 12.5cm centre to centre (of the screw holes),  the pivot/screw is about 15mm from the back edge of the fingerboard.  The pivot point (screwhole) is roughly midway between the 4th and 5th buttons (on the outside row) on a 3rd button start and midway between the 5th and 6th button on a 4th button start DG box.
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tirpous

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2020, 02:39:46 AM »

Quote
Usually the general opinion about thumb straps is that they are well-adjusted when removed from the instrument and consigned to the waste bin.

Frankly - a bit prejudiced and broad-sweeping, aren't we, Mr. General Opinion ??  Besides, the recycle bin would be more appropriate environmentally speaking.

Hey BTW, the thumbstrap is greener than shoulder straps: no need for brackets, buckles and half a cow's worth of leather.

 :||: :||: :||: :||:   Look Ma, no shoulder straps !   :|||: I'm no Ma, I wear shoulder straps over me head !  ;D
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Québécois

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2020, 03:06:48 AM »

My dad has played a 2-row Hohner (pre-Erica model) and a Erica for some 50 years with a thumbstrap, then had them removed and had shoulder straps installed! I had some boxes with a thumbstrap but I found it too restrictive to my taste. Your mileage may vary  :D
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2020, 04:00:38 AM »

I've never had luck with thumb straps, but I always assumed it was my fault.
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2020, 01:23:51 PM »

I should clarify an earlier statement I made regarding my playing improving when I ditched the shoulder strap; it's not so much the lack of a shoulder strap itself that made a difference but rather getting my thumbstrap working to my advantage and relying on it more than anything else for stability.  I can't say that adding a shoulder strap in addition to a thumbstrap would hinder my playing any other than it potentially being less comfortable for me for the reasons mentioned earlier.
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Peadar

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2020, 09:55:18 PM »

Thanks for all the replies- some more helpul than others.
I will reply at length when I am not too tired to think straight.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2020, 12:04:01 AM »

Anyone who wants to play old style boxes is going to have to get used to using a thumb strap because that's all they were ever fitted with.

The material ranging from oilskin, to leatherette backed webbing strap, to real leather

So what makes a thumbstrap well adjusted?

Out of my four soxes, two have thumbstraps two have had them removed. All four have shoulder strap brackets fitted.
Both the boxes with thumbstraps allow me to reach all the notes on the box when my thumb is located. I could use them if I wanted.

Two comments:
1. If you don't get on with thumbstraps it's easy to fit shoulder strap brackets.
2. If you can can get your thumb inside the strap and reach all the treble buttons when it's in there, it's sufficiently well adjusted. Fiddling with it won't help. The thing to do is play the instrument and get used to it, if that's the way you choose to go.

They're a bit like air buttons in that using them will feel natural with practice, even though they feel weird to start with.
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