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Author Topic: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?  (Read 3696 times)

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playandteach

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2020, 12:50:56 AM »

From Tone Dumb Greg
"Out of my four soxes, two have thumbstraps two have had them removed. All four have shoulder strap brackets fitted.
Both the boxes with thumbstraps allow me to reach all the notes on the box when my thumb is located. I could use them if I wanted."

Out of my four soxes, two are boxes - two are foxes. I like the basses but the basses are faces. Faces for basses, boxes for foxes. The birds are for watching, the words are for botching.
Dr Seuss wannabe.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 08:01:18 PM by playandteach »
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2020, 01:13:13 AM »

Quote
If you can can get your thumb inside the strap and reach all the treble buttons when it's in there, it's sufficiently well adjusted. Fiddling with it won't help.

Except that there is still a lot of room for adjustment even if you are able to reach all the buttons in one position.  For example, adjusting your thumbstrap so that your thumb rests behind the keyboard will feel very different from adjusting it so that your thumb rests on the edge of the keyboard, even though you can reach all the buttons from either position.  One position may facilitate easier playing over another for a particular individual.  I know some people who play with their thumb well behind the keyboard and their fingers curled over the buttons, almost as if they were clutching it, while others will play with the thumbstrap adjusted in such as way as to allow them to play with fingers that are perfectly flat.  It does take a bit of experimenting to find what feels and works best for you.  Of course, at some point you have to just start playing - you can always change the way your thumbstrap is positioned at any point down the road.  I certainly have!
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richard.fleming

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2020, 08:38:17 AM »


So what makes a thumbstrap well adjusted?

I'd remove it, every time, and replace with a strap and brackets. They only fitted thumbstraps because they were cheaper. With a strap your fingers have so much more freedom and fluidity of movement.
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 12:20:16 PM »


So what makes a thumbstrap well adjusted?

I'd remove it, every time, and replace with a strap and brackets. They only fitted thumbstraps because they were cheaper. With a strap your fingers have so much more freedom and fluidity of movement.

...except if you prefer the thumbstrap to a shoulder strap as I do, and as many others do. As mentioned earlier in the thread, one suits my particular style of play and needs over the other. There are no hard and fast rules and one option is not inherently better than another for everyone.
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richard.fleming

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2020, 12:44:35 PM »

What is really annoying about these kinds of forum is that a post gives you a chance  to share your opinion on whatever is the topic, and as soon as you do immediately someone chimes in and says, in effect, 'That's just your opinion'.  Of course it's just my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying that's my opinion. For what it is worth. There is an argument that says when your hand is not attached to the accordion by a thumb strap it is free to move more freely. That's my opinion on the subject. You have a different opinion. I won't be advancing that opinion because I don't share it. I mostly advance an opinion when there's a new member who may be making decisions about ways to play music. The old hands won't want to know because they are, like me, set in their ways.
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2020, 01:03:27 PM »

My comment was not intended as an admonishment. I guess it’s just that when I reply to someone’s query, I try not to speak in absolute terms but rather offer suggestions for what might work, keeping in mind that one-size does not fit all. There’s sometimes a tendency for people to drop advice on here like its gospel, rather than suggesting “maybe try this...” I certainly wasn’t trying to negate your perspective. Apologies if it came across that way  (:)

« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 01:08:29 PM by mselic »
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richard.fleming

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2020, 05:47:53 PM »

It's not really you, it's a general tendency. An opinion is just an opinion. Obviously it is different if someone states as 'fact' something you think is not.
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Lester

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2020, 06:11:37 PM »

They only fitted thumbstraps because they were cheaper.
All the Pokerworks and Ericas I have bought new came with both thumbstraps and shoulderstraps in the box.

Chris Rayner

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2020, 06:47:09 PM »

All the Pokerworks and Ericas I have bought new came with both thumbstraps and shoulderstraps in the box.

Blimey!  I know, theoretically that all Hohners must have been bought new, in the same way that 85% of the mass of the universe is dark matter, and most elements were formed in supernovas or neutron star collisions.  It’s just that nearly every one I’ve seen bears the scars of passage through the hands of multiple owners.  Makes you think.🤔
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Elderly amateur musician hoping to stave off dementia by learning to play the melodeon.  Main instrument a Tommy, also D/G and G/C pokerworks,  a single row 2 stop Hohner, and a new addition to the free reedery, a rather splendid Paolo Soprani four voice 120 bass c-system chromatic button accordion.  Very shiny, very loud, and about the same size and weight as a small car.  Now I’ve traded me Benny with (ahem) a cash adjustment, to a three voice 60 bass Castagnari K3.

Peadar

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2020, 08:06:19 PM »

Two very different types of thumbstrap working well for me - Stiff leather fixed by two screws to the back of the keyboard and loop at 45 degrees to keyboard and a broad ribbon from the local haberdasher.

The leather strap (On my Vienna Type International AD)- thumb goes into the loop - and then turning hand so that the thumb points straight toward the case work "locks" the thumb in the grip of the fairly stiff leather. With left knee over right and box sitting on knee this seems to match the hold described in Wyper'tutorial.

The Ribbon- on the anonymous 19 key 4 bass 4 (2x2) stop C/C# - The ribbon loop is fixed at 90 degrees to the keyboard. Thumb through, resting against edge of keyboard and a slight turn of the thumb tightens the ribbon and pulls the the thumb against and near paralel to th keyboard. Very firm and comfortable. This strap is a replacement - the original worn through when I got the box was a green brocade material - as is the left hand strap. I surmise that this box is probably dating to the early 1920's was originally sold as a ladies model.

I don't intend adding shoulder straps to antiques - I would rather play them the way they are. I take a different view on more modern boxes - HA112 /114, 1040 etc.

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george garside

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2020, 11:16:23 PM »

the only box I use a thumbstrap on is my hohner 4stop one row.  I find that a strap attached with just a single screw works best for me as it is free to move sideways 
and is long enough for my thumb to rest lightly on the edge of the keyboard whilst allowing enough articulation to reach all 10 buttons.    An overtight thumbstrap or one attached with 2 screws  is unlikelt to provide enough articulation.

george
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Larry Powers

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2020, 01:35:09 PM »

I have been playing a Quebecois made box with a heavy strap set at a 45 degree angle.  My thumb tip would rest on the corner of the keyboard which had a rounded front.  It worked OK but I often found my thumb would slip off and be floating behind he keyboard.  Because of the discussion today I checked some videos and I found that Sabin Jacques when playing a similar box has his thumb completely through the loop and on the bottom of the keyboard.  I found that with other Quebecois players it varied with some resting the thumb tip on the edge of the keyboard and others behind it.  I tried playing a little with my thumb all the way through the strap and resting on the back of the keyboard and it is actually the crotch of the thumb and first finger that provides the resistance when squeezing.  I also noticed that the people I observed had a very smooth style with the bellows and used minimal bellows movement.  It appeared to me that their leg did the bulk of the work keeping the melodeon in place and the thumb strap was used to give their hand a reference point as much as supporting the instrument.  I have a lot to figure out yet about the thumb strap.

I recently purchased a Lilly and I have found that the thin thumb strap with a single screw and the groove in the keyboard work well and are very comfortable on a box this size.  As I purchased this and a soft case from Eagle Music to be a compact travel instrument I have no interest in carrying the straps that came with it.
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richard.fleming

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2020, 07:59:36 AM »

I also noticed that the people I observed had a very smooth style with the bellows and used minimal bellows movement.  It appeared to me that their leg did the bulk of the work keeping the melodeon in place and the thumb strap was used to give their hand a reference point as much as supporting the instrument. 
Those players who wedge the box against their left leg as described above don't need a thumbstrap. Using that style you hardly need to press your thumb against the thumb-groove either. It gives you a lot of fluidity, compared with those who, for example, have their thumb behind the fingerboard.
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tirpous

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2020, 07:42:51 PM »

Quote
Those players who wedge the box against their left leg as described above don't need a thumbstrap. Using that style you hardly need to press your thumb against the thumb-groove either. It gives you a lot of fluidity, compared with those who, for example, have their thumb behind the fingerboard.

Richard, do you mean with a box that has shoulder straps too ??  (Larry was talking one-row with thumbstrap only, I think)
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richard.fleming

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2020, 10:03:21 PM »

Yes, for that you would need one strap on your right shoulder (assuming right-hand playing).
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Peadar

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2020, 10:49:35 PM »

Yes, for that you would need one strap on your right shoulder (assuming right-hand playing).
Just looking at videos of Irish players e.g. Bobby Gardiner & Johnny Connolly on the melodeon they seem to play thumbstap only - though on the accordion a shoulder strap  usually comes into it.
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tirpous

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2020, 05:46:55 AM »

Here are 2 examples of thumbstrap arrangements that have worked for me (YMMV):

My first box was a Hohner HA-112 in.  It has a flimsy and way-too-long thumbstrap of some kind of fake leather, held in place with a single rivet.  I just turned the strap around the rivet and flipped it over to shorten it.  This (kinda) worked, holding my thumb more or less on the rear corner of the keyboard.  Access to center buttons was OK for most buttons but awkward for #1 and 2 - it's like I had to shift gear before playing any low note.  Not a perfect setup, but it got me going...

Many years (and boxes) later, I find the arrangement in the other picture works better for me: I shortened the strap (leather, but not too rigid) so that my thumb is behind the keyboard.  The strap is angled at '2 o'clock' and is a snug-loose fit around the thumb (no struggle to slide it in and out).  The trick is that when I get in playing position the strap bends up and there is a kind of camming action that locks the thumb securely in place without undue pressure. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 06:03:49 AM by tirpous »
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mselic

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2020, 05:58:20 AM »

I also noticed that the people I observed had a very smooth style with the bellows and used minimal bellows movement.  It appeared to me that their leg did the bulk of the work keeping the melodeon in place and the thumb strap was used to give their hand a reference point as much as supporting the instrument. 
Those players who wedge the box against their left leg as described above don't need a thumbstrap. Using that style you hardly need to press your thumb against the thumb-groove either. It gives you a lot of fluidity, compared with those who, for example, have their thumb behind the fingerboard.

I believe Larry meant that the box resting on the thigh did a lot of the bracing (it does), not wedging it against their left leg as some Irish players do when using a shoulder strap.  Correct me if I'm wrong, Larry!
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tirpous

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2020, 06:02:20 AM »

Couple more pictures to show hand position for access to low and high buttons.  Also note the way the thumbstrap is bent upwards.  Obviously, I'm not really in playing position (taking the picture with my left hand etc..) but this should give an idea.
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richard.fleming

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Re: What is a well Adjusted Thumbstrap?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2020, 09:18:55 AM »

[quote author=mselic l
I believe Larry meant that the box resting on the thigh did a lot of the bracing (it does), not wedging it against their left leg as some Irish players do when using a shoulder strap.  Correct me if I'm wrong, Larry!
[/quote]
 Worth bearing in mind that having the bellows on your thigh causes wear to the bellows tape area and eventually the bellows themselves, whereas having the box wedged against the outside of the thigh does not.
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