Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.  (Read 1016 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DMoko

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4

I've been handed down my grandfather's Hohner G/C Pokerwork, which I have many fond memories of him playing and I'm ecstatic to learn how to play. Every time I'm able to replicate a few notes from a song I'm as happy as a little girl in a candy store. However, I keep running into obstacles and it's beginning to feel like this instrument is simply not capable of playing the songs that I'm attempting to learn. So I'm really hoping that there are things that I'm just not understanding about this instrument that some of you could help me identify and work through.

So the first thing, as I'm learning a song I often find myself in a scenario where it'll call for a bass note, which requires a pull in order to play, however, the melody note at that moment is only able to be played by a push. This makes learning a song on this thing such a tedious process, as I'll go through the sheet music learning the melody parts and feeling good about the progress I'm making, only to begin learning the bass parts and realize these conflicts of push/pull between the bass and treble. Thus I'll have to relearn the melody parts to account for the bass parts, and I'm even finding myself having to change notes in the song as certain notes are just not available given the push/pull action. So as a specific example, C on the bass is only available on a push, however, on the treble side notes A and F are only available on a pull.

Secondly, sometimes as I'm learning songs I'll find the song requires me to pull more than push or vice versa.. So coupled with the first issue, I'm continuously finding myself at an impasse. I've tried transposing the song to another key, but it starts the whole tedious process of learning both parts and rearranging notes to deal with push/pull conflicts, that I just give up. And I already have limited time to practice as is that I just feel so defeated with this thing at times.

I feel that I'm starting to get to the conclusion that perhaps the limitations on this instruments make for more serious dead ends and less workarounds then I initially believed. When I questioned these concerns with someone from a music store they simply pointed me in the direction of chromatic accordions as my best option, however, I don't want to give up on my grandfather's button box.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and to provide some of the songs I'm attempting to learn..
Pennsylvania Polka
Bridal Dance Polka (A Pennsylvania wedding tradition)
In Heaven there is no Beer (have only attempted a line or two here)
Logged
G/C Hohner Pokerwork

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2020, 04:14:01 PM »

Hi, welcome to the forum!
I'm a DG player so can only give some general advice, but a D G melodeon works in the same sort of way, with some notes being found on the other row in the other direction.
If you look here on the  forum
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/page,keyboard_2_row.html

You will see several options for a G C melodeon.
It shows the notes available on both the C row and the G row.
You'll see that some notes are available on the other row in the other direction, so if you want a note to work for you in the other direction try finding it on the other row.
As you can see, not all notes have this style of reversal, but several do.
Try crossing to the other row to find the note.
I'm sure more experienced GC players will be along soon!
Good luck
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Marje

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 486
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2020, 04:39:23 PM »

I have been thinking over what you say (and translating it to apply it to the D/G box I play).  In the tunes you mention, I am not sure what the problem really is: if you are playing in the key of C,  and the melody goes to A and F,  you don't usually need a chord of C at that point  ; the chords of F or G that your box offers you will work in tunes you mention. Basically the push-pull action of the box provides default chords that will usually sound OK. Playing on the outer row requires a bit more thought at times, but it's usually possible to get the chords you need for simple dance tunes etc.

Perhaps you are attempting tunes written in keys other than C or F? Not a good idea at this stage, stick to the home keys.

I would advise using two hands right from the start. Not everyone agrees with this, but it can be frustrating to work out a melody line and then find the chords don't fit, so you have to re-learn the tune a different way. If you are using both hands, you will quickly learn to "borrow" a melody note from the other row sometimes in order to get the right chord;  let the basses guide your fingering of the melody.

I am sure others will come piling in with further, and possibly conflicting, advice. We seem learn this instrument in very different ways, and you'll need to keep trying until you find what works for you. All I can add is that the limitations of a diatonic box are part of its attraction for those of us who enjoy it. Good luck!
 
Logged
Marje

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3521
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2020, 04:58:27 PM »

I feel that I'm starting to get to the conclusion that perhaps the limitations on this instruments make for more serious dead ends and less workarounds then I initially believed. When I questioned these concerns with someone from a music store they simply pointed me in the direction of chromatic accordions as my best option, however, I don't want to give up on my grandfather's button box.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and to provide some of the songs I'm attempting to learn..
Pennsylvania Polka
Bridal Dance Polka (A Pennsylvania wedding tradition)
In Heaven there is no Beer (have only attempted a line or two here)
Firstly, this is hard to believe, but most of us here have learnt that the limitations are part of the charm. A big accordion that can do everything is unwieldy and can be very overpowering when played averagely.
I'm a GC player, so I can more immediately speak in your keys than perhaps others who are mainly DG players... however they probably have more melodeon experience.
It sounds like you have a musical background - which helps when it comes to identifying solutions.
You are right - there are a limited number of keys and chords which means that some tunes with very contrasting sections are either best left alone or you have to accept that your version lacks the very chord that gives it real spark.
There are two basic solutions:
1 play the tune anyway, and enjoy it for the bits that work, and simplify the rest
2 find tunes that work well on the box you have
What key are you trying to play the Pennsylvania Polka in? If you can attach the music you're working from I could give you tips on what I'd do. Unsurprisingly, I'd suggest playing it in G or C. but then we can look at the issues.
If you need an F or A in the right you can stop the chord for that note, or accept the wrong chord for a moment, or play an alternative that is closer. You obviously have F chords in both directions, and really the A and F notes are supported to a greater or lesser extent by the pull chords D (m) Am and even G (though you also have that in both directions).
You'll be unlikely to need the C chord with those melody notes unless they are 'on the beat' dissonances (I'll not say more until I know more about what you already know).
You may also want to try good beginner tunes that you've never heard of before. The GC box is well used in France to play tunes in Am,  so you could try any of those thousands of tunes just to get going.
So, if you'd like some help with those tunes - please share the music as an attachment or link to where I can find the right version (if you use attachments here, you have to make sure the file size is within the limits - you'll probably need to resize any photo, but pdfs are usually fine).
Or if you'd like some tunes to learn, just let me know.
If you don't mind sharing info of what your previous musical experience has been, that would also help.
Good luck.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 05:11:27 PM by playandteach »
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Serafini GC accs 18 bass

Thrupenny Bit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6831
  • happily squeezing away in Devon
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2020, 05:20:09 PM »

Just to back up Marge 's point - start from the beginning with both hands.
You need to link them mentally and if you just learn a melody line you might find yourself having to un-learn and re-learn when adding chords as the melody push/pull sequence might change.  This is not easy, so get into good habits from the start .
Q
Logged
Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3521
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2020, 05:30:13 PM »

I also agree - but that is assuming you are (as I did) learning a two row as an interlocking instrument rather than two one rows together. There are arguments both ways, but a GC box may push you further to forego two individual rows as a lot of the specific continental melodies have longer phrases in one bellows direction - rather than the faster bellows push-pull style of English melodeon playing. Just ask, if this is unclear.
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Serafini GC accs 18 bass

Graham Wood

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 132
  • Old Fumble Fingers
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2020, 06:40:49 PM »

Hi DMoko and welcome to the club.

I'm a brand new player too and I'm guessing I'm going through some of the frustrations that you are except I'm learning on a B/C Box.

Having a musical background I've always been a stickler for all the right chords etc. but I am now starting to realise that you have to make allowances when it comes to playing this instrument. For instance I tried 'Waltzing Matilda' in C and would normally use Am and Em on the keyboard for this song. No such luck on a B/C box. You either play the bass note or no chord at all. (I don't have a box where you can pull the thirds).

I got to the point where I thought 'Well what can you play on this thing'. I ended up going on youtube and watching video's of people playing a B/C box and identified tunes I like that sounded really good. I'm working on some of those plus having a good Tutor book as well because I know that it can be done. I think it's probably best to play what other people play well on these things, and the art of mastering that will increase your skills to a level whereby you can work out improvisation and compromises to the tunes that you actually want to play. I think that is what this instrument is all about. The fun part is making a tune sound good even though there are limitations with the instrument. A bit like driving a car with only 3 wheels. A bit of skill and you will eventually get where you want to go.

Logged
Graham Wood - Third Planet from The Sun
Hohner Morgane B/C,   Junior Martin 1 Row in 'D' with knobs on top,   Acadian 1 Row in 'C' with more knobs on top.

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3521
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2020, 09:10:36 PM »

A bit like driving a car with only 3 wheels. A bit of skill and you will eventually get where you want to go.
Or perhaps like riding a bike instead of driving a car, lots of freedom, some lack of convenience. And like melodeons, not as much fun in the rain.
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Serafini GC accs 18 bass

Dick Rees

  • Neo-Luddite
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1240
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 12:55:15 AM »

I play the Pennsylvania Polka on my 2-row.  On a scale of 1-10 (easy-hard) it is about an 8, so as a beginner you shouldn't feel bad about it.  Learning a few 3's to get you going will help.

Check your messages.
Logged
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...Thelonius Monk

"I never made one of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking."
...Albert Einstein

Cogito ergo bibo.
...Bacchus

DMoko

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Struggling to play my 2row button accordion, looking for advice.
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2020, 02:45:08 AM »

First off, thank you so much all who have responded! It truly is awesome to see this community very much alive! Secondly, I definitely got the answer to my problems and a nice couple next steps to go on.

So let me try and tackle a few responses here...

Perhaps you are attempting tunes written in keys other than C or F? Not a good idea at this stage, stick to the home keys.
I'm a total dummy... This was it! The song I was reading was in the key of F and I just didn't realize it. I'm re-learning how to read sheet music and I completely made the assumption that this was written in C. I'm learning!! But thanks so much for pointing out the obvious for me! I was able to transpose the sheet music properly from F to C and it just immediately ...FITS! THANK YOU!

To the others suggesting to learn both parts while learning a new song, I absolutely agree. I've learned this lesson in the past, but thanks for sharing advice!

Or if you'd like some tunes to learn, just let me know.
If you don't mind sharing info of what your previous musical experience has been, that would also help.
Good luck.
I would greatly appreciate some recommendations for beginner songs to learn!
As for my previous music experience, it has been mostly guitar. I played in a rock band throughout my teenage years and after I dropped out of that scene I got into classical guitar for a few years. As I mentioned I'm re-learning how to read sheet music in order to better find songs to play on the accordion. Also, I've never been great at learning by ear. I've always been a very visual learner and mostly learn songs by memorizing the fingering patterns.

I play the Pennsylvania Polka on my 2-row.  On a scale of 1-10 (easy-hard) it is about an 8, so as a beginner you shouldn't feel bad about it.  Learning a few 3's to get you going will help.

Check your messages.
I actually greatly appreciate the humbling response. I'm definitely gonna move on to easier songs for now just so I can start to really play and enjoy this thing!
Logged
G/C Hohner Pokerwork
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal