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[WestOz]

I often have difficulty transitioning from one tune to another (even though I know the second tune well, I struggle to bring to mind the start of the second tune whilst I am still playing the first).
Any tips, techniques, advice welcomed as to how to overcome this.

[Marje]

I know what you mean. As long as you always play tunes in the same sequence, I think the only way is to practise them together (or at least B1 to A2) so that they seem like parts of the same tune. My trouble is when I decide to reverse the familiar order or switch things round by bringing in a new tune - I might know how they both go when I start off, but find the second tune has slipped away by the time I'm ready for it. I suppose the answer is to practise such innovations and not try to slip them in on the fly.

[Anahata]

What Marje said. Practise the transition, even just the last 4 bars into first 4 bars of the next tune.
Also learn to think about how the next tune starts while playing the last B of the first.

Related: practise remembering how tunes start - this is useful if you don't always play the same combination of tunes together, and also essential if you have to lead the band or be solo musician for a dance team. Maybe print out a list of titles, and then pick them them at random and see if you can remember the first few notes. You can only get better at it if you try it!

[Andy Next Tune]

Yep, you definitely need to practice the changeover in both directions as if it is all one tune - you are adding new C & D part!! Work out the best fingering because your usual fingering when playing the single tune might need tweaking to make the changeover smooth, especially if there is a key change or large jump. It will help to glue the two tunes together in your brain.

Slipping new tunes in on the fly is tricky and I haven't found an easy answer. In a session, before I start a tune, I will already have decided what other tunes (if anyway) I will change to, and have practised the 'set' beforehand. It helps reduce brain fade but doesn't eliminate it!!! In our band, we practice tunes in their dance sets and only try to slip in new ones in rehearsals.

[george garside]

I think the simple answer is to practice tunes in 'sets'  . This particularly applies to band work be it caelidh, , morris (of all types)  .This requires not only individual practice in sets but also full band practice so tune changes are done in complete unison.

It is also important to practice in sets  if you are going to play 2 or 3 tunes one after the other  as a 'set' in a singaround playaround type session where everybody does a solo performance in turn.

Playing  3or whatever number of tunes as a set can often be easier and indeed sound better if  some key changes between tunes take place eg tune one in G, tune 2 in D and tune 3 in G  or maybe A without much bass. (on DG boxes)   .

When playing/practicing at home I often  experiment  with tunes in sets just for the fun of it and also to find combinations of tunes that  combine seamlessly.  This can sometimes be confirmed by playing the A part of one tune followed by the B part of another.

The overall aim should be to change tunes smoothly  rather than sounding as if you've missed a gear and are farting about trying to find it!

george







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[John MacKenzie (Cugiok)]

I have the same problem when playing Jenny Lind, switching rows. Although it's more the bass switch over I struggle with. If only I'd learnt to play bass with 4 fingers instead of 3

SJ

[Steve_freereeder]

I sometimes visualise the shape of start of the tunes, rather than think of the notes I am going to play. That is usually enough to enable me to start the tune and then I'm OK.

I usually know the tunes well enough before I start playing, but once I am playing and approaching the change of tune, my mind sometimes goes a blank. So I remind myself of the visualisation before I start playing.

Without drawing and scanning sketches to post here, I'll represent a couple of tunes shapes by asterisks (in real life I visualise these as dots connected by straight lines)...

'The Recovery' starts like signals: 'down-up, down-up...', or a pointed hill followed by a valley:

   *   *
*   *

Then, if I want to go into 'Harlequin Air', I know the shape is 'up-down down-up' or, a picture of a trough or trapezium:

*       *
  *  * 

The shapes are enough; I don't need to know the actual notes.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

I don't usually fall over if I pratice the first few bars in my head while playing the last part of the preceding tune. The part I find really hard, is calling out the next tune when it comes time to switch!

[Thrupenny Bit]

Fascinating Steve!
I think I might do something similar with finger positions on buttons, but have never consciously tried to evaluate it.
... or even think about it till now!

West oz if you are playing in a session or with a friend, it's always worth naming the tunes. If you slip up there's a good chance someone else will keep going allowing you to catch up.
Similarly why not ask a friend to pick up tune 2 when you call it, that relieves you of the pressure and your friend can be ready to go when you end the first tune.
It doesn't solve your personal problem but possibly can help in some situations.
Q

[Marje]

Yes Steve, I know exactly what you mean about the shape of the tune, that's how it works for me too. If I can hold on to that shape of the first bar or two, I'm usually OK.

[george garside]

as a (?very) poor reader  I don't visualise or attempt to visualise notes or patterns of notes  instead relying entirely on the basis of if I can hum or whistle it My fingers will do the business correctly  .  this works fine when going from tune to tune in a set and I sometimes find myself hummin or whistleing complete sets  '

george

[Stiamh]

In past decades I never had trouble with changing to the next tune in a set, but with advancing years, various stresses, and maybe too many tunes and too many instruments, it is becoming a problem sometimes. Practising sets and changeovers is definitely a help.

But what do you do when a great next tune occurs to you during a spontaneous set in a session but you haven't played it in ages and you're not 100% sure you'll lead into it successfully after a "hup"! This is definitely starting to be a thing with me, a new and difficult to swallow thing.

I've started playing a game with myself occasionally. A while ago I made a list of tunes to be made into new sets for a performance or for adding to the repertoire of our ceili band. About 30 or 40 tunes. I tested myself by playing a tune and then picking another one from the list at random and changing into it (without "hesitation, deviation or repetition") and carrying on like that.

I found it very useful. In fact the idea has come to me that at the next ceili band practice we will play this game, going round the circle. When it's your turn, pick a tune from the repertoire at random (not in the same set as the last choice) and your neighbour has to start it instantly... should be instructive 

[Thrupenny Bit]

Stiamh, I think I'd go quiet whilst the current tune is being played by your session mates and try and focus on the next (new) tune you're about to start..... and hope!

Your random tune practice is interesting and obviously works for you. Inevitably, practice whether it's a kniwn tune changeover or a random tune changeover looks like the answer.
Q

[Andy Next Tune]

.........In fact the idea has come to me that at the next ceili band practice we will play this game, going round the circle. When it's your turn, pick a tune from the repertoire at random (not in the same set as the last choice) and your neighbour has to start it instantly... should be instructive 

Oooooh! I like that idea to mix things up. We do visit the dusty pages of the band tune book quite regularly, but the idea of dynamically choosing and switching 'in flight' could be fun. Instructive even if the chooser needs to start it 

[Alan Pittwood]

The part I find really hard, is calling out the next tune when it comes time to switch!

If you've told the others what tunes you are going to play, and the order, then a simple "Change!" can be enough, perhaps with some movement of eyes, head or leg.
Otherwise it may be just practice to speak tune titles while playing.

If you are playing sets that have been recorded by others, then make up an mp3 or abc set and listen to it from time to time.

[Julian S]

Of course, there is something to be said for playing just the one tune per dance, as the inimitable John Kirkpatrick has advocated...
In sessions I just yell 'change' and hope my fingers play something people know.
And I certainly have confused ceilidh band members when my fingers have taken over when changing and played something completely different from the usual (quite possibly something they don't know!). I have taken to writing out incipits because I find the process does help embed tunes, particularly new ones.

Back to practicing the tune changes for Saturdays Burns Night do...though I am hoping to call Sir Roger McCoverley and play just that for a good long while. Sorry, purists ! It has taken me a long while to get to the stage of calling when playing and I try to avoid it whenever possible and keep it really simple - and changing tunes as well just adds to difficulty.

Julian

[Thrupenny Bit]

Good luck with playing and calling at the same time Julian. You have my admiration.
I still can't get over watching JK playing and calling with his family band Kircophany. JK playing some own annoyingly tricky compostions whilst carrying out a conversation with the audience dancing. Utterly amazing.
Afterwards expressing my amazement to his son George, an accomplished box player and he too is equally amazed.
Must be an alien....

I struggle to shout 'change ' without losing the tune at times let alone call.
Such things as changing tunes flawlessly along with talking over playing must be practice practice practice.......?
Q

[Gena Crisman]

I would definitely agree with Stiamh and George;

The thing about hard practice is that, unless you then graduate from that, and start to play around, it's very hard to grow beyond the challenge and have it shift into your comfort zone.

So, definitely get started by actually playing the last part of one tune into the start of another and keeping the rhythm going, but, don't stop there. Making the change going the other way too, try to signal any key changes with a chord or some leading notes, play an A into the B of the other tune, play the A of one into the A of the other, make the change halfway through the A, go back and forth rapidly, mess around. Think about what works and what doesn't - be silly, but, pay attention.

After all that, changing from one tune normally can be really rather pedestrian.

[WestOz]

Thanks to all for suggestions - clearly, practice is the key (no pun intended), but imagining the "shape" of the next tune start is an intriguing thing to try.
I find Walter Bulwers' #2 followed by #1 no problem (possibly because of the key shift) - similarly Harpers' Frolick/Bonney Kate is seamless, however in trying Hunt the Wren/The Fatherby Jig (per Anahata - Youtube) I cannot make the change!

Practice, practice.....

[george garside]

a simple test of whether or not two tunes will fit together seamlessly is to test play the A part of one with the B part of the other.   It is also 'better' to play two tunes with the same time signature.  eg two or 3 4/4s or 6/8s rather than mixing them.  A pet hate of mine is playing a mixture of  4/4 and 6/8 tunes for the dance 'Cumberland square eight'   that is popular in some quarters.  - but everybody to their own!

george