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Author Topic: Identifying reed manufacturer  (Read 715 times)

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Tim V

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Identifying reed manufacturer
« on: February 18, 2020, 01:40:10 AM »

Does anyone recognise the logo on this reed plate (see attached photos)? It is the only reed plate in the instrument which is branded (highest note on the middle row of a three row) but appears to be identical to the other unbranded reed plates. All of the reed plates have a diagonal line stamped across them at the top right though it's hard to see in the photos. From a bit of googling this appears to be the Dural line from Salpa, but I haven't been able to find this logo anywhere.

The reed plate is from a Schwyzerörgeli made in Italy but for the Swiss market. The instrument is branded "Zugerörgeli" and I've been unable to find out much about it other than it's Italian-made.

I would be very grateful for any ideas as I have no other information about who exactly made the instrument or how old it is.
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mselic

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 04:00:13 AM »

I’ve seen those reeds before in a one-row, 4-voice model that I believe was made in Italy. I actually asked the same question on here at some point a while back but got no answers.
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Tim V

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2020, 05:08:48 AM »

Thanks - confirmation of the probable Italian origin is helpful.
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diatonix

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2020, 07:32:48 AM »

Can you take a picture of the whole reed (with its rivet)?
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Theo

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 08:00:16 AM »

Reed plates secured with dome headed nails is more common on older German and Swiss made instruments than Italian.  Not diagnostic I know.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Tim V

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2020, 12:31:41 AM »

Thank you all very much for your input, much appreciated.

Can you take a picture of the whole reed (with its rivet)?

Here is the only photo I have of the rivets. Not great quality I'm afraid and I don't have the örgeli to hand to get a better one. I did notice that they are completely flat not hand hammered.
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Tim V

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 12:48:19 AM »

Reed plates secured with dome headed nails is more common on older German and Swiss made instruments than Italian.  Not diagnostic I know.

The plot thickens! I have only ever tinkered with Hohners in the past and the joinery in this seems much more complicated - see attached photo. It looks like at least three different types of wood were used in the reed blocks and a different wood was used for the "rib" of the accidentals block compared to the wood in the other two. I have no idea why - seems an odd choice.
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Tim V

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2020, 12:54:49 AM »

Here are some more photos of the instrument.

IMG-20200217-165953" border="0 IMG-20200217-170013" border="0 IMG-20200217-170052" border="0 IMG-20200217-170123" border="0 IMG-20200217-170149" border="0 IMG-20200217-170450" border="0 IMG-20200217-170514" border="0 IMG-20200217-170544" border="0 IMG-20200217-171724" border="0 IMG-20200217-171735" border="0 IMG-20200217-174310" border="0 IMG-20200217-174334" border="0 IMG-20200218-175608" border="0
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Theo

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2020, 08:41:47 AM »

How do you know it was made in Italy? 
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Winston Smith

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2020, 10:33:01 AM »

The action on the treble end looks lovely, a work of art as well as quality engineering, methinks!
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Theo

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2020, 10:39:39 AM »

There is an apparently identical model here which is described as Made in Switzerland.
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richard.fleming

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2020, 11:50:47 AM »

The action on the treble end looks lovely, a work of art as well as quality engineering, methinks!

And maybe even more to the point has a different mechanism on the inside row of buttons to increase pallet lift and compensate for the shorter levers to the pallets. I can't remember the  technical term for this just now.
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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 01:59:04 PM »

The action on the treble end looks lovely, a work of art as well as quality engineering, methinks!

And maybe even more to the point has a different mechanism on the inside row of buttons to increase pallet lift and compensate for the shorter levers to the pallets. I can't remember the  technical term for this just now.

I think its a fairly common action on the three rows, my three row Hohner has a similar one.
Reversed action, I think is the term.
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MartinW

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2020, 06:05:52 PM »

This looks like a Schwyzeroergli, from Switzerland

The right hand is usually Bb/Eb/accidentals&reversals. The left hand is a 14-18 button unisonoric system, but upside down if you’re used to PA. For some reason the Swiss nearly always seem to tape the corners on the bellows rather than the metal bellows corners that everyone else uses.

I have one that I picked up in Interlaken some years back. It’s remarkably compact for a 3 row.

Martin
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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 07:50:03 PM »

The original post was about the manufacturer of the reeds rather than the origin of the instrument (interesting though this discussion has been): the reeds in my 1980s Saltarelle have the diagonal lines across the top RH corner like the majority of the ones in the OP's box, and I'd be interested to know their true origin. The reputable dealer from whom I bought it assured me they were Binci; they're certainly very good quality, sweet-sounding and well-behaved reeds, but after decades of ownership I still don't really know who made them.

Not that it matters particularly, because I have  no complaints about their performance - it would just be interesting to know.

Graham
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

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boxcall

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2020, 08:41:13 PM »

Diagonal lines are for orientation of the reeds usually. Not the maker.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 08:42:51 PM by boxcall »
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Tim V

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 09:43:06 PM »

Thanks again for all the input and ideas. Apologies for the thread drift which I've inadvertently introduced by posting the photos of the rest of the interior - thought it might help with the question of the reeds' origin.

I think I can conclude that the reeds are machine made and probably Italian. They sound great, just in need of tuning.

Yes, it is definitely a Bb/Eb Schwyzerörgeli with a row of accidentals. It has a two voice treble section which I believe is less common and cheaper than the three voice version. The bass appears to be three voice. Each bass button acutates two pallets, one sounds two bass reeds and the other sounds a chord reed using the mini stradella mechanism. I bought it at a pawnbroker in Texas. It came with a selection of sheet music from the 1980s or older and a handwritten note in German telling the recipient the basics of how to play it.

How do you know it was made in Italy? 

Good question and thank you for the link to the one described as made in Switzerland. I thought possibly not Swiss because of a couple of references to the "Zugerörgeli" brand online.

A Swiss player called Thomas Aeschbacher used a Zugerörgeli on a CD with a baroque church organ. The church organ was tuned to A432 so he had to acquire an örgeli with matching tuning for the project. An article in a local newspaper says the following: "The Schyzerörgeli-Workshop Reist... re-tuned a so-called "Zuger örgeli", built in Italy 30 years ago and acquired by Thomas Aeschenbacher in exchange for a couple of bottles of red wine". In German here: https://www.noz-oberaargau.ch/langenthal/detail/article/hertzschlag-premiere-00143712/

There are also a couple of identical models listed secondhand by an accordion workshop in Switzerland as "Zugerörgeli... Italian production... Zugerörgeli are exactly the same as Schyzerörgeli, the name merely denotes the origin". I think this is a reference to Schyzerörgeli literally meaning "little organ from the canton of Schwyz" and Zugerörgeli meaning "little organ from the canton of Zug". https://www.akkordeon-schweiz.ch/schwyzeroergeli

One last thing that made me think it might be Italian was the design of the bass mechanism which is quite different from the Schwyzerörgeli in this blog by Owen Woods:

http://melodeonmusic.com/2012/05/30/inside-and-out-part-3-schwyzerorgeli/

Mine has a mini stradella bass rather than the reed sharing arrangement in the other one which suggests a different design philosophy and possibly a different origin.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:27:14 PM by Tim V »
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GPS

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Re: Identifying reed manufacturer
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2020, 05:54:52 AM »

Diagonal lines are for orientation of the reeds usually. Not the maker.

Now why didn't I think of that .....   ::)
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Among others, Saltarelle Pastourelle II D/G; Hohner 4-stop 1-rows in C & G; assorted Hohners; 3-voice German (?) G/C of uncertain parentage; lovely little Hlavacek 1-row Heligonka; B♭/E♭ Koch. Newly acquired G/C Hohner Viktoria. Also Fender Jazz bass, Telecaster, Stratocaster, Epiphone Sheraton, Charvel-Jackson 00-style acoustic guitar and other stuff..........

Squeezing in the Cyprus sunshine
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