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Author Topic: Joining in  (Read 5018 times)

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Jesse Smith

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2020, 11:36:53 PM »

As a beginner without much opportunity to play with others, I have found that the few times I have played in sessions (at the Northeast Squeeze-In free reed weekend in Massachusetts), it felt to me like my playing took a noticeable jump forward. Nobody seemed to object to me joining in to the degree I could - sometimes just hitting the tonic at the end of each phrase, or vamping chords on the backbeat, or playing whatever snatches of the tune I could pick up on the fly. I try to abide by the wry rule of thumb "Better never than late" when it comes to playing in time, and in general to be making a net positive contribution to the communal playing. I felt like I learned a ton in a short time about where various intervals lay on the keyboard, recognizing chord changes and how they map to the keyboard, etc.

I don't know if this openness to novices is common to most English sessions (I have read that in most Irish sessions it is strongly preferred that you only play if you have thoroughly learned the tune beforehand), but certainly in the English and American Old Time jams at the Squeeze-In it seemed acceptable and welcomed. I even played in the contra dance open band, even though on 2/3 of the tunes I could only vamp chords or play bass because they were too fast for me to sight read.
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Calum

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2020, 03:28:52 PM »

I don't know if this openness to novices is common to most English sessions (I have read that in most Irish sessions it is strongly preferred that you only play if you have thoroughly learned the tune beforehand)

It very much depends on the session.  Whatever tradition it is, if it is three or four fairly high level players of flute and fiddle, the efforts of a novice box player are not likely to be at all appreciated.  With 20-30 players at a festival thrash session, play what you can and play it loud.  And in between, well, you just have to work out what's socially acceptable.

A big part of it at this stage is just acquiring a boatload of material.  Try and learn new music continuously - say eight bars a day or whatever you can keep up with.  Try and alternate 50/50 stuff you find yourself and stuff you hear played at sessions. 
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2020, 05:33:04 PM »

I don't know if this openness to novices is common to most English sessions (I have read that in most Irish sessions it is strongly preferred that you only play if you have thoroughly learned the tune beforehand), but certainly in the English and American Old Time jams at the Squeeze-In it seemed acceptable and welcomed.

My impression, from fifty years or so of experience of observing  sessions (not necessarily as a player), suggests that
English sessions seem to be far more tolerant of beginners than Irish ones. I get the impression that Irish session players seem to regard what they do as a  performance for the benefit of a public. An English session is more for the benefit of those performing. Hopefully, those around enjoy what's going on, but that is a benefit, not the purpose. Noodling (trying to work out tunes quietly, in the background) is frowned on.

The biggest problem a beginner might encounter with an English session full of experienced players is that they tend to play their music full on. Nobody seems to mind noodling. Few would notice it.
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Greg Smith
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Steve_freereeder

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2020, 06:31:53 PM »

My impression, from fifty years or so of experience of observing  sessions (not necessarily as a player), suggests that
English sessions seem to be far more tolerant of beginners than Irish ones. I get the impression that Irish session players seem to regard what they do as a  performance for the benefit of a public. An English session is more for the benefit of those performing. Hopefully, those around enjoy what's going on, but that is a benefit, not the purpose.
Yes - I agree with your assessment, Greg!

Failure to appreciate the expectations of these two differing genres of sessions can clearly cause potential misunderstandings among would-be attenders and in conversations on forums such as this one.  :|bl
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MikeK

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2020, 08:47:10 PM »


I attended the above slow session this afternoon and thoroughly enjoyed it. I was made very welcome and the pace is set according to the players' ability.
Bev was very patient and the whole session is based on having fun. No pressure whatsoever. One of my big problems is when its getting near to my turn to play.
I really get nervous and if playing a  tune at a quicker pace, my fingers have a mind of their own. At today's session, no problems with nerves, although it
was my first time.
That is such a nice description of the session - exactly how it ought to be. I'm glad you felt welcome and at ease, and enjoyed yourself. (:)
[/quote]

 The session I attended was predominantly Irish music. Everyone very welcoming.
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Stiamh

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2020, 09:51:24 PM »

English sessions seem to be far more tolerant of beginners than Irish ones. I get the impression that Irish session players seem to regard what they do as a  performance for the benefit of a public. An English session is more for the benefit of those performing.

Bof... I would say musicians go to Irish sessions for the enjoyment of playing with others. Hopefully the listeners will enjoy the music too, and appreciation from the "punters" is a powerful stimulus to play well. But if it were primarily for the enjoyment of the public you'd be playing Danny Boy and the Sally Gardens and the Fields of Athenry all night.

In Irish pub sessions where the hosts or anchors are paid by the landlord there may be more emphasis on making the session tighter, more like a public performance. But not necessarily.

There are Irish sessions and Irish sessions. Where the musicianship is of a very high level, beginners should not expect to be able to join in. But beginners' sessions are everywhere now. Even in Ireland you'll find - as I was very suprised to find on my last visit in 2014 after nearly two decades of absence - sessions composed mainly of people who haven't been playing very long and aren't all that good, with the same tunebooks (yes, tunebooks!) spread out on the table that you might find in Montreal or Timbuktu. As I remarked to my host, the worldwide trend of adult beginners meeting to play Irish music with more enthusiasm than ability has spread to Ireland.  :D
(Edited to add: these are very sociable sessions that will make anyone feel welcome. )
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 10:04:51 PM by Stiamh »
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Tufty

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2020, 10:12:57 PM »

"the worldwide trend of adult beginners meeting to play Irish music with more enthusiasm than ability". Not just Irish music, very much the case in my area (N. Yorkshire) where the sessions are more mixed in style. A lot of these newcomers do have some musical background, so make pretty fast progress. I do have some concerns about sessions relying on set tune books. On the plus side they seem to give some people confidence to join in but I am finding that some people are becoming too dependent on them, they also tend to freeze out people who play by ear. Perhaps they should be seen as the equivalent of training wheels, which should be taken off asap ;)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2020, 10:20:09 PM »


Bof...


None intended and none taken

Quote

As I remarked to my host, the worldwide trend of adult beginners meeting to play Irish music with more enthusiasm than ability has spread to Ireland.  :D


I take your point Steve and what I said was an observation, not a criticism. I'm not saying either culture is better or worse, just different.

My point is well made by your comment. I can't imagine an educated observer of an English session making a similar comment. It would seem that Irish sessions are becoming more English (and more inclusive). For better, or for worse.

I don't see many tune books at any sessions down this way, though.

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Greg Smith
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Stiamh

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2020, 10:48:06 PM »

None intended and none taken
Around these parts I use "bof" to mean "dunno about that", "shrug", "meh", etc. So whatever it was you didn't take certainly wasn't intended. (:)

Quote
I can't imagine an educated observer of an English session making a similar comment.

Well, no, because presumably, after nearly 50 years of being steeped in English music, they wouldn't have witnessed a huge change occurring in such a short time. The remark btw was supposed to be funny / ironical, and my host, an excellent Irish musician, agreed and was amused.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2020, 11:11:36 PM »


Well, no, because presumably, after nearly 50 years of being steeped in English music, they wouldn't have witnessed a huge change occurring in such a short time. The remark btw was supposed to be funny / ironical, and my host, an excellent Irish musician, agreed and was amused.

Still none intended and none taken ;D

I would have been equally amused. Just different traditions, though.
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Greg Smith
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boxcall

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2020, 12:58:21 AM »

I don't know if this openness to novices is common to most English sessions (I have read that in most Irish sessions it is strongly preferred that you only play if you have thoroughly learned the tune beforehand), but certainly in the English and American Old Time jams at the Squeeze-In it seemed acceptable and welcomed.
Nobody seems to mind noodling. Few would notice it.


I’ve been to Irish sessions and never have I felt unwelcome.
Slow sessions so you are not expected to have it down.

I would say noodling is not helpful to the person trying to start the
next tune and should be avoided IMO.
I play with some very experienced people ( local acoustic sessions) and they have to ask
the people noodling to stop so that they can think about what
they are about to play. If it’s not your turn wait to work on a tune.
Common curtesy.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 01:00:21 AM by boxcall »
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Pearse Rossa

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2020, 01:00:25 AM »

.. I would say musicians go to Irish sessions for the enjoyment of playing with others. Hopefully the listeners will enjoy the music too...

We have to maintain a high standard, sure begob and begorrah, you never know who might drop in....
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Jesse Smith

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2020, 05:53:40 PM »

I would say noodling is not helpful to the person trying to start the
next tune and should be avoided IMO.
I play with some very experienced people ( local acoustic sessions) and they have to ask
the people noodling to stop so that they can think about what
they are about to play. If it’s not your turn wait to work on a tune.
Common curtesy.

Well, there's two types of noodling, isn't there? There's noodling in between tunes while someone else is trying to talk or line up the next tune, like you said. That's just rude. But there's also noodling during a tune where someone is playing quietly trying to catch onto the tune or just play what parts of it they can. Hopefully, it's not too obtrusive and makes a net positive contribution to the overall sound.
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Lester

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2020, 06:46:04 PM »

Well, there's two types of noodling, isn't there? There's noodling in between tunes while someone else is trying to talk or line up the next tune, like you said. That's just rude.
That I agree with 100%. Nothing worse than someone in a session noodling between tunes, you can never be sure whether they are starting a new tune/set or just noodling.

But there's also noodling during a tune where someone is playing quietly trying to catch onto the tune or just play what parts of it they can. Hopefully, it's not too obtrusive and makes a net positive contribution to the overall sound.
Not sure that is noodling, it is learning the tune and is to be encouraged.

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2020, 07:33:05 PM »


But there's also noodling during a tune where someone is playing quietly trying to catch onto the tune or just play what parts of it they can. Hopefully, it's not too obtrusive and makes a net positive contribution to the overall sound.

...Not sure that is noodling, it is learning the tune and is to be encouraged.

I think, in an Irish session, that would be noodling, but in an English session, it's learning a tune.
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Greg Smith
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Stiamh

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2020, 08:11:51 PM »


But there's also noodling during a tune where someone is playing quietly trying to catch onto the tune or just play what parts of it they can. Hopefully, it's not too obtrusive and makes a net positive contribution to the overall sound.

...Not sure that is noodling, it is learning the tune and is to be encouraged.

I think, in an Irish session, that would be noodling, but in an English session, it's learning a tune.

English, Irish or Etruscan, surely it all depends on the session and its particular dynamic. A big welcoming social gathering with 16 instruments making a joyful noise at high volume levels... Who is going to object if you noodle away discreetly to pick up the tune?

Now, imagine a smaller session, high levels of musicianship, with a flute and fiddle playing a duet on an unusual tune while the other half-dozen musicians in the circle listen attentively. Not the time to pick up your melodeon and start looking for notes!  :|glug

Nick Ray

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Re: Joining in
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2020, 11:11:32 AM »

Quote
Quote from: Nick Ray on March 03, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote
Alternatively if you're  a Facebooker you could join the BITS (beginner intermediate tune sessions) group to ask about something local.
I couldn't find anything on Facebook for 'BITS' Helena? ???

Yer tiz.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/502906953217878/

Thanks Graham (:)
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