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[Hugh Taylor]

A fiddler at our monthly session in Kendal played a tune that she didn't know much about. Steve (McGrooger) identified it as the tune to the song Willies Lady, and further research told us that the tune is for a Breton song and used by Martin Carthy for the song Willies Lady. The tune was originally recorded by Alan Stivell (of course)
I obtained some abc - below - from somewhere and we started playing it. I then thought that whilst it's scored in 3/4 it doesn't feel like it, and I thought it could be 3/2. I then Googled for the score and came up with versions in 3/4 and some in 2/4. I listened to recordings of the original Breton tune, and I'm still not sure. Can any of you musical experts help?
Here is the Breton song - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Son+ar+Christr&view=detail&mid=AB021AAF401086C53BFDAB021AAF401086C53BFD&FORM=VIRE

X:1
T:Son ar Christr (aka Willies Lady)
O:Breton tune 'Song of Cider'
M:3/4
L:1/16
Z:Hugh Taylor, July 2017
K:Am
d2|d2B2 c4 A4|A2d2 d2c2 B2d2|d2B2 c4 A4|B2G2 A4 A2:|
|:A2|c2d2 e4 e4|f2d2 e4 e2e2|ded2 c4 A4|A2d2 d2c2 B2d2|
d2B2 c4 A4|B2G2 A4 A2:|

[Steve_freereeder]

Hugh, I think you have got the transcription pretty much right. It is indeed in 3/4 time, but perhaps sounds a bit tricksy because of the unusual phrase lengths.

I learned this brilliant tune and song 'Ev Chistr 'Ta, Laou!' celebrating cider many years ago from the Chieftains album 'Celtic Wedding'. I love it to bits.
Here's the Chieftains recording with Kevin Conneff's wonderful voice 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikBYAnzICsc

[Hugh Taylor]

Thanks Steve, but when I play it I can tap my foot regularly, almost one tap per note: you wouldn't normally be able to do that to a tune in 3/4 time.
And why was there a version in 4 time - https://www.flutetunes.com/tunes.php?id=204. Is it wrong?

[Tone Dumb Greg]

Here is the Breton song - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Son+ar+Christr&view=detail&mid=AB021AAF401086C53BFDAB021AAF401086C53BFD&FORM=VIRE

Love that Tri Yann are great. Better known in these parts as the composers of the Twiglet tune, Theme Vannetais.

Works in triple time for me, even though it's not a waltz or a mazurka. 3/2 might be better, but I'm not technical enough to be sure. The 2/4 version just seems odd. Breaking it down into single beats doesn't give the correct emphasis IMHO.

[the first time I heard it I counted it in 6/4]

[Steve_freereeder]

Thanks Steve, but when I play it I can tap my foot regularly, almost one tap per note: you wouldn't normally be able to do that to a tune in 3/4 time.
And why was there a version in 4 time - https://www.flutetunes.com/tunes.php?id=204. Is it wrong?

No it's not wrong - there is more than one way of subdividing a tune into bars.
The tune has a mixed irregular pulse length: sometimes in 2, sometimes in 3, which actually is characteristic of many Breton tunes.

I have notated the tune in three ways, (a) in 3/4 time, (b) in 2/4 time, and (c) with mixed time signatures which reflect the strong pulses.
(a) works but doesn't always reflect the strong pulses.
(b) works too but looks awkward with ties going across the bar-lines
(c) works best of all, and I personally prefer this version.

[Lyra]

Yet another version = Blackmore's night style
https://youtu.be/fDZ5W5mD0xU

[Tyker]

My first hearing was on the Alain Stivell album 'Reflets' , 1970 . The track .

[Gary P Chapin]

My trio plays and sings this. We decided to do it when we were asked to play for a cider festival at a cider brewer's farm.

Here's the sheet music we learned from:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19ST97PNGxqod4HugfsEYJQ08iwxTIOiq/view?usp=sharing

I learned this brilliant tune and song 'Ev Chistr 'Ta, Laou!' celebrating cider many years ago from the Chieftains album 'Celtic Wedding'. I love it to bits.
Here's the Chieftains recording with Kevin Conneff's wonderful voice 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikBYAnzICsc

I love that song and that album -- my very first encounter with Breton music years ago.

[Steve_freereeder]

Here's the sheet music we learned from:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19ST97PNGxqod4HugfsEYJQ08iwxTIOiq/view?usp=sharing

Gary, that's great, and a very straightforward transcription. Thanks for posting! 

[pbsalt]

Thanks for posting that - I'll have to add the tune to my list of tunes for celebrating the apple harvest.
Paul

[Dick Rees]

Here's the sheet music we learned from:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19ST97PNGxqod4HugfsEYJQ08iwxTIOiq/view?usp=sharing

Gary, that's great, and a very straightforward transcription. Thanks for posting! 

Steve...

Would you share your mixed meter transcription?  The comparison would be priceless.

[Julian S]

Really good - great to be reminded of this. My feet tell me it works for a Laride but I haven't been to a Breton fest noz for a few years. Any views ?

J

[Hugh Taylor]

Thanks for the 2/4 music Gary which I've now transcribed into abc. We move into the relative major for the 'B' part where you stay on the minor.

I still don't understand how this sounds ok in 2/4, where my abc also sounds ok in 3/4 or 3/2.

Julian. Pity I'm not going to the weekend in Wensleydale this year as we could have played it together (In Am!). I'll be up a fell somewhere in the Lakes for my music and walking weekend.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

Would you share your mixed meter transcription?  The comparison would be priceless.

It's attached to Steve's post as a pdf.

[Dick Rees]

Would you share your mixed meter transcription?  The comparison would be priceless.

It's attached to Steve's post as a pdf.

Thanks.  The link showed up when I logged in on a different browser.

Liking the 3/4 a lot...probably due to 45 years of playing polska, pols and springleik.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

At the risk of appearing ignorant (moi?)
What language are the lyrics in? Google thinks they're Haitian Creole [Edit: I expected Breton].

Ev'chistr' ta Laou rak chistr'zo mat
Ev'chistr' ta Laou chistr' zo mat loñla
Ev'chistr' ta Laou rak chistr'zo mat
Ev'chistr' ta Laou rak chistr'zo mat

Ur blank ur blank ar chopinad loñla
Ur blank ur blank ar chopinad
Ev'chistr' ta Laou rak chistr'zo mat
Ur blank ur blank ar chopinad loñla
Ur blank ur blank ar chopinad

Ar chistr' zo graet e'it bout evet loñla
Ar chistr' zo graet e'it bout evet
Ar chistr' zo graet e'it bout evet loñla
Ar chistr' zo graet e'it bout evet
Ar chistr' zo graet e'it bout evet

Hag ar merc' hed e'it bout karet loñla
Hag ar merc' hed e'it bout karet loñla
Ar chistr' zo graet e'it bout evet
Hag ar merc' hed e'it bout karet loñla
Hag ar merc' hed e'it bout karet

[Gary P Chapin]

You are right. Breton.

[Clive Williams]

I've heard it (in fact I used to play it in GIGCB) as a laride, a 6-time one in particular. So technically, yes, it probably is 6/4.

[Roman Simcik]

Let me just mention this tune has been exported a lot. I appreciate this Dutch version (Wat zullen we drinken): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CZq051btlE

[Steve_freereeder]

I've heard it (in fact I used to play it in GIGCB) as a laride, a 6-time one in particular. So technically, yes, it probably is 6/4.

(The late) Bernard Loffet had it notated in 3/2, which is not far off a 6/4 laride.
https://diato.org/tablat/tab293.pdf