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Author Topic: Old method book  (Read 2081 times)

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Chris Marriott

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Old method book
« on: November 06, 2020, 07:39:56 PM »

I've just been given this rather elderly melodeon (sorry: "British Chromatic Accordeon"!) method book. I don't know how old it is, but the cover price of 4 shillings (20p today) means that it predates decimalisation (1972). It uses a rather curious system of musical notation, which is rather like a grand staff but doesn't (as far as I can see) correspond to any common melodeon tuning!

Does anyone know anything more about it? I've no intention of using it, but it's an interesting historical curiosity to add to my collection of music books.

Chris
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Chris

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Theo

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2020, 08:22:32 PM »

I've seen that same book and the notation system it uses is designed for the BC system.  It could be used with other semitone instruments, treated as transposing instruments, but I'm pretty sure it would not work with a fourth apart box.  The black button on the Hohner (BC) Double Ray corresponds to the central line of the big stave, and note tails up or down indicate push or pull.   Lines are buttons on the B row and spaces are buttons on the C row.
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Re: Old method book
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2020, 08:27:13 PM »

It's the Hohner Double Ray Black Dot system produced by Forbes of Dundee (Jimmy Shand was an employee there).
Forbes commissioned Hohner to manufacture the Double Ray.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 08:37:05 PM by Rees »
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Kon

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2020, 08:32:29 PM »

The notation looks a lot like the "Griffschrift" (German for "fingering notation) used in old German Club tutors (some examples hosted by Anahata here: https://treewind.co.uk/melnet/), and I think maybe also for Styrian accordion tutors. I'm not confident it's an exact match to German Griffschrift, but it certainly seems to follow the same general principle of (mis?)-appropriating musical staves for a tablature notation. So even though it looks like normal musical notation it isn't - the notes on the stave don't indicate musical notes in the familiar way, but positions on the keyboard. I suspect that's why it doesn't look like a conventional melodeon tuning to you, but given the title refers to British Chromatic accordions and the image shows a two-row box the tuning must be BC (or one of the other semitone tunings, I hope somebody more knowledgable will correct me if I'm wrong), whatever the confusing notation implies.

I don't know anything about this particular tutorbook, but I hope the above helps.
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Chris Marriott

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2020, 08:32:59 PM »

Thanks for the information! Yes, the pictures in the book are of the Hohner Double Ray.

Chris

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Chris

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Stockaryd

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2020, 10:32:01 PM »

I recently bought a Liliput and got a book too.
  "Schott's Harmonika Reihe"

They have published 32 books.
Many songs, such as "Muss I denn" = Wooden Heart
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Peadar

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2020, 08:29:43 AM »

I've just been given this rather elderly melodeon (sorry: "British Chromatic Accordeon"!) method book. I don't know how old it is, but the cover price of 4 shillings (20p today) means that it predates decimalisation (1972). It uses a rather curious system of musical notation, which is rather like a grand staff but doesn't (as far as I can see) correspond to any common melodeon tuning!

Does anyone know anything more about it? I've no intention of using it, but it's an interesting historical curiosity to add to my collection of music books.

Chris

Very interesting to learn that Forbes of Dundee published a British Chromatic Accordeon tutor.
My guess is it dates to the early thirties.
The cover illustrations (photo-gravures) show a Vienna type 21 key /8 bass and a German type 19 key/4 bass -possibly an International - though I think I see the Kalbe double anchor trademark. Either sets it to pre 1935, while metal grille of the modern pokerwork puts it post ?when?
Keith Prowse Ltd issued "First Steps" tutors for many instruments.  These included one for the Chromatic four and eight bass types in published c. 1932. The Forbes publication appears to be contemporary with it
 
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Chris Marriott

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2020, 08:43:32 AM »

Thanks, Peadar, that's useful to know. I hadn't realised it might be as old as the 1930s!

One nice thing about the book is that it's got half a dozen sheets of notepaper inside it with handwritten tunes (using the notation of the book), such as this version of "silent night", so it was obviously well used by its original owner.

Chris
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Chris

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Peadar

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2020, 10:45:31 PM »

The British Chromatic melodeon was actually C/C# - as was the trademarked  "Anglo-Chromatic".

I've just played through the version of Silent Sight you posted - It's all on the outer row, so in the key of C major (unless you play it on a B/C box .....in which case.

I am curious as to how the book instruct players of 19 key accordeons to read the "staff". Is there a note or a separate illustration for that type of box?

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xnsman

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2020, 12:44:06 AM »

Way back around 1950/51, while still living in Central Scotland, I bought a Double-Ray from J.T.Forbes of Dundee.It was a BC, although I didn't know that at the time, and played happily away up and down the outer row. It came with a Forbes tutor book with a system of notation of which I now have no recall, but presume it would have been the system mentioned in this thread.

It was only later, when I tried to play with a friend who played piano that I found I was playing in a really non-union key (5 sharps)! I remember that he looked at the Forbes method book and said that I might as well learn to read music as try to decipher the Forbes system.
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penn

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2020, 09:03:01 AM »

The British Chromatic melodeon was actually C/C#
The OP’s second picture from the book in question shows a B/C - third button on the inner row is C on the stave.
But the cover picture calls it a British Chromatic Accordeon, so maybe the actual key was not so set in stone? British Chromatic is a Wyper’s term isn’t it?
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Chris Marriott

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2020, 09:47:42 AM »

The British Chromatic melodeon was actually C/C#
The OP’s second picture from the book in question shows a B/C - third button on the inner row is C on the stave.
But the cover picture calls it a British Chromatic Accordeon, so maybe the actual key was not so set in stone? British Chromatic is a Wyper’s term isn’t it?

It's not really a stave, though; it's tablature pretending to be a stave. The tunes will play correctly on any semitone box, but I don't think it's intended to be specific to B/C or any other semitone tuning. The book was found in the case of an old C/C# Pokerwork, I should have perhaps added.

Chris
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 10:14:40 AM by Chris Marriott »
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Chris

Castagnari Marie-Nicole, English Concertina and Piano Accordion.

Peadar

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2020, 11:08:11 AM »

The British Chromatic melodeon was actually C/C#
The OP’s second picture from the book in question shows a B/C - third button on the inner row is C on the stave.
But the cover picture calls it a British Chromatic Accordeon, so maybe the actual key was not so set in stone? British Chromatic is a Wyper’s term isn’t it?
George Jones (florit 1880's) promoted C/C# melodeons and trade-marked the term "Anglo-Chromatic". The term British Chromatic certainly dates to the Wyper era (circa 1890-1920) but appears to be a generic term, sidestepping the Anglo-chromatic trademark. I stress that is my interpretation and I have very limited access to primary source material. Rees has in another tread stated that the early "British Chromatic" boxes were C/C# though post 1945 "British Chromatic Accordion" seems to have been applied to three row BCC# boxes (?with unisonoric accordion basses?).

Circa 1900 some melodeons where in concert pitch, others where in "Old High Pitch".....which was almost a semitone up from A=435.

The OP’s second picture from the book in question shows a B/C - third button on the inner row is C on the stave.
In the Forbes "graphic notation" outer row buttons are on the lines. As Chris says - this looks like a stave but isn't.

Way back around 1950/51, while still living in Central Scotland, I bought a Double-Ray from J.T.Forbes of Dundee.It was a BC, although I didn't know that at the time, and played happily away up and down the outer row. It came with a Forbes tutor book with a system of notation of which I now have no recall, but presume it would have been the system mentioned in this thread.

It was only later, when I tried to play with a friend who played piano that I found I was playing in a really non-union key (5 sharps)! I remember that he looked at the Forbes method book and said that I might as well learn to read music as try to decipher the Forbes system.
That's a brilliant story - but least it got you playing!
I wonder now what were the "beginner tunes" in 1930's - 1950's Tayside?
Chris?



« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 11:41:04 AM by Peadar »
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Chris Marriott

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2020, 11:12:55 AM »

I am curious as to how the book instruct players of 19 key accordeons to read the "staff". Is there a note or a separate illustration for that type of box?

It doesn't mention it; all the illustrations inside the book are of the Hohner Double Ray.

Chris
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Chris

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penn

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2020, 12:05:06 PM »

Thanks, I get it, it’s not a traditional music stave. That’s very confusing particularly if the reader has a rudimentary understanding of conventional representations of notes.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 03:01:54 PM by penn »
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Theo

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2020, 12:41:32 PM »

Thanks, I get it, it’s not a traditional music stave. That’s very confusing particular if the reader has a rudimentary understanding of conventional representations of notes.

The book was produced by J T Forbes in Dundee who also co-designed the Double Ray BC in collaboration with Hohner.  The book was aimed specifically at the 21 button Double Ray in BC.  Their target market would have included a lot of people who had little formal musical education. So at the time their tablature on a "stave" may have been the first form of musical notation that a new player had seen.  It's since fallen into complete disuse as far as I'm aware.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Peadar

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2020, 02:43:58 PM »

Thanks, I get it, it’s not a traditional music stave. That’s very confusing particular if the reader has a rudimentary understanding of conventional representations of notes.

The book was produced by J T Forbes in Dundee who also co-designed the Double Ray BC in collaboration with Hohner.  The book was aimed specifically at the 21 button Double Ray in BC.  Their target market would have included a lot of people who had little formal musical education. So at the time their tablature on a "stave" may have been the first form of musical notation that a new player had seen.  It's since fallen into complete disuse as far as I'm aware.
I am curious about that Black button in the middle of the outer row (Button 6), I know it is a feature of the Double Ray but is there anything special about it other than the colour?
It's curious as well that the cover refers to 19, 21 and 23 key instruments and that the Vienna type in the cover illustration does not appear to be a Double Ray....I do wonder if Chris's copy of the tutor is itself a prototype edition.
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Chris Marriott

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2020, 02:49:20 PM »


I am curious about that Black button in the middle of the outer row (Button 6), I know it is a feature of the Double Ray but is there anything special about it other than the colour?
It's curious as well that the cover refers to 19, 21 and 23 key instruments and that the Vienna type in the cover illustration does not appear to be a Double Ray....I do wonder if Chris's copy of the tutor is itself a prototype edition.

I think the black button simply marks the centre point of the tablature system used. Ie a visual aid for the novice player. 

Chris
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Chris

Castagnari Marie-Nicole, English Concertina and Piano Accordion.

Peadar

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2020, 03:27:20 PM »

Thanks Chris -as  far as melodeon goes I am still pretty much a novice.

I was a student in Dundee over two years in the mid 1980's and at that time my social life pretty much revolved around Scottish Country Dancing - The travel to dance area from Dundee at that time was pretty much North Fife and Angus.  I never saw anything but piano accordions at local dances. As I never saw Jimmy Shand on stage I always assumed he played piano box like everyone else.

It's very interesting (to me at least)  to now learn that button boxes had been sufficiently popular in Dundee for a music shop to have produced their own tutor book -I will have to look out for a copy

The mid 80's were a pretty bleak time in the Dundee local economy - The Jute Mills had all gone (I once did a flitting using a trolley "borrowed" from the yard of a half demolished mill) and the sunrise industries of the 1960's that replaced them were faltering. Forbes had probably gone by then too - had I any interest in music shops at that time.

Peadar






« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 03:41:30 PM by Peadar »
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Peadar

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Re: Old method book
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2020, 09:23:42 PM »

A copy of The Forbes Easy Graphic Method turned up in the post along with some PA music.

It has a certain period charm, through which it relentlessly promotes the Double Ray.

On Page 25 the sections dealing with the 10 key and 19 key appear (See pdf)

There is a brilliant quote from a beginner Page 26 who for his first week (on a semitone box)  "was aye playin'up the wrang dreel".



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