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Author Topic: Online live sessions  (Read 1312 times)

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Helena Handcart

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2020, 10:10:11 AM »

I'm looking at possibilities to keep my little group of steady-speeders playing together. I know that full online sessions will not be possible but I think that as well as checking in with each other we could do some sort of tune share. Probably involving recorded tunes or one person taking the lead and the others playing along at home with their mics muted.

I'm running some tests this morning but would welcome any advice, insight, experience that may help push this forward.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2020, 03:08:59 PM »

So, one type of session is where there is a small group leading the session and playing a nice variety of parts and sounds. I'd suggest that joining in with someone solo might be less fun than joining in with a small band performance. Perhaps if a few confident people organise themselves, they can combine several audio tracks and videos and then share those combined, virtual band videos. Perhaps you then send that video out over zoom or similar, and everyone gets to play with that virtual band and still chat about it afterwards.

True communal playing seemingly isn't possible, but, sometimes it's nice to sit on the border of an active session and just join in a bit, too.
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2020, 09:50:20 AM »

I participated in a Facebook Open Mic club yesterday, where you simply send your mobile phone recordings to the organiser who collates and posts them, and I have to say it worked remarkably well.

The big plus that I hadn't appreciated in advance was that although the main audience is supposed to be those that are attending the event, one's contributions are also being watched by all one's FB friends.  It was clear from the surprised comments received on the event thread that many of those listening in were friends of the performer who probably wouldn't be seen dead in a music club, or even contributing to a FB thread, but who appreciated the opportunity to watch their chum play, which they'd never seen before.
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Anahata

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2020, 10:27:45 AM »

I'm looking at possibilities to keep my little group of steady-speeders playing together. I know that full online sessions will not be possible but I think that as well as checking in with each other we could do some sort of tune share. Probably involving recorded tunes or one person taking the lead and the others playing along at home with their mics muted.

What's wrong with the obvious solution of making a YouTube video and sending the participants a link? It could be unlisted if you only want the chosen participants to see it.

You might also be able to do a live stream if you want to make it a bit more real time. And anyone who couldn't make it at the time could run the playback. I've never done a YouTube live stream so don't know how practical it is.

I'd suggest that joining in with someone solo might be less fun than joining in with a small band performance.
By all means if you can organise it, but I'd hate to see a simple solution that you can 'just do' today giving way to a more complicated one that never really happens...

I participated in a Facebook Open Mic club yesterday, where you simply send your mobile phone recordings to the organiser who collates and posts them, and I have to say it worked remarkably well.

The big plus that I hadn't appreciated in advance was that although the main audience is supposed to be those that are attending the event, one's contributions are also being watched by all one's FB friends.

That illustrates how abandoning the idea of a real time session opens up all sorts of other advantages.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2020, 11:17:23 AM »

My guitar player and I tried Zoom this morning. Results were a bit inconclusive. It worked OK for him. He recorded his end of things and sent me the recording, which was fine. I was unable to tell at my end because when I played something his sound muted for me. It must be a setting, but I haven't found it yet. I just played my own thing and he played along.

Need to hear what happens when a third participant joins in.
If the worst comes to the worst, the site has the facility to provide separate sound files for each participant which can be mixed down and synched later.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2020, 09:18:00 PM »

So, one type of session is where there is a small group leading the session and playing a nice variety of parts and sounds. I'd suggest that joining in with someone solo might be less fun than joining in with a small band performance. Perhaps if a few confident people organise themselves, they can combine several audio tracks and videos and then share those combined, virtual band videos.

So, it would seem John Spiers is doing this ^^

He posted this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhXWaQgnyio of just himself playing, asking other people to record themselves joining in, and he has been combining those with his own video & audio to form, effectively, a session - he's gotten to here so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eex9qSs5Wzs

I played along with this today and it felt really pretty good to do that. Although, a bit fast for me on the first set.

We talked about davinci resolve, the other day, in another thread. It has some features that allow for syncing video streams based on audio - the intent is for multi cam recordings of the same events, but, I have an idea for convincing it to do what you'd want, given people are playing different parts. I shall see if I can't do some experiments.
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Anahata

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2020, 11:21:45 PM »

We talked about davinci resolve, the other day, in another thread. It has some features that allow for syncing video streams based on audio - the intent is for multi cam recordings of the same events

The video editor I use can do that, and I'd guess that they all can, because it must be a common requirement.
In KDEnlive you select your 'master' track  and 'set audio reference', then go to the other tracks and click on 'align audio to reference'.
If it doesn't get it right, you can always doing it by ear, sliding the secondary track back and forth on the time line until it sounds right.

I saw Squeezy's fake session video today. I'm glad you have mentioned it here, because I meant to do so, but got distracted a.k.a. forgot...
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Gary Chapin

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2020, 01:09:21 AM »

For services at my church, we've gone to Zoom. For the hymns, one person plays. Then everyone in their own space (muted) sings along. So the sounds don't come together, and yet everyone is singing together. It's imperfect, yeah, but I found it  surprisingly satisfying -- it really did help bring us together, which is somewhat the point.

I think it's an imperfect solution, of course, but afterwards, you've all played the same thing at the same time (if not in the same sonic place), you can drink something, and talk about it. Community is served.
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Gena Crisman

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2020, 06:39:56 AM »

The video editor I use can do that, and I'd guess that they all can, because it must be a common requirement.
In KDEnlive you select your 'master' track  and 'set audio reference', then go to the other tracks and click on 'align audio to reference'.
If it doesn't get it right, you can always doing it by ear, sliding the secondary track back and forth on the time line until it sounds right.

So, I didn't have much luck with Resolve in so far as while it could sync them ok as a multicam situation, it didn't want to make it viably straight forward to display all those videos & mix the audio together.

So, I gave KDEnlive a go, and I think? my approach worked? My thought is to have the 'prime' video clap 8 times with a constant beat, with the expectation that the companion video will clap along only with the last 4. Easy enough for a musician - the leading beats and expectation of ending should make it clear? Then, the prime video can remove the audio of the first 4 claps, and perform an audio based sync and anchor the companion videos in place with the matching claps. For a longer video, I guess you could opt to sync a second time later on too, just in case. Then you can just edit out all the clapping later probably.

https://youtu.be/NQoghniZDlA

Resolve would sync the videos only if I did perform the step of editing out the first 4 claps. KDEnlive was less picky but also possibly it was finding a way to sync the rest of the audio, also. I guess the claps do also provide some clear spikes to aid manual sync - although a bit echoey in the car. I'm not sure how aggressive frame rate discrepancies would impact the above solution.
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Gary Chapin

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2020, 03:10:47 PM »

I've been trying JamKazam, and am close to getting it to work. I've been making enough progress to feel like it's SO CLOSE! I feel like it will if I can tune my system to reduce latency issues. Fingers crossed.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2020, 06:03:17 PM »

I've been trying JamKazam, and am close to getting it to work. I've been making enough progress to feel like it's SO CLOSE! I feel like it will if I can tune my system to reduce latency issues. Fingers crossed.

I have ordered an ethernet cable for the same reason. I hope that makes it usable.
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Helena Handcart

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2020, 09:52:12 AM »

I have ordered an ethernet cable for the same reason. I hope that makes it usable.

I've just downloaded JamKazam for some testing.  Still got some ethernet cables around the place. Can't remember how many years it is since any of the machines in the house actually had an ethernet port though.

This could be fun.
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IanD

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2020, 11:06:57 PM »

Anyone trying to use Zoom for music, here's how to fix the "dalek sound" problem when playing instruments...

https://youtu.be/50NoWIiYECA
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2020, 11:11:46 PM »

Anyone trying to use Zoom for music, here's how to fix the "dalek sound" problem when playing instruments...

https://youtu.be/50NoWIiYECA

That's the second link I've seen to that video. Looks the bees knees, but I would have to solve another problem before it becomes relevant. How do I stop other parties muting as soon as I start playing?
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Greg Smith
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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2020, 11:15:27 PM »

Anyone trying to use Zoom for music, here's how to fix the "dalek sound" problem when playing instruments...

https://youtu.be/50NoWIiYECA

That's the second link I've seen to that video. Looks the bees knees, but I would have to solve another problem before it becomes relevant. How do I stop other parties muting as soon as I start playing?

That's another option in the advanced menu, IIRC...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2020, 11:25:52 PM »

Anyone trying to use Zoom for music, here's how to fix the "dalek sound" problem when playing instruments...

https://youtu.be/50NoWIiYECA

That's the second link I've seen to that video. Looks the bees knees, but I would have to solve another problem before it becomes relevant. How do I stop other parties muting as soon as I start playing?

That's another option in the advanced menu, IIRC...

Erm...not sure what you mean. It's not an option I can see under audio. All I see is noise cancellation options. Is it somewhere else?
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Greg Smith
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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2020, 01:26:59 AM »

I've been trying JamKazam

In our community ceilidh band, 3 of us have been experimenting with JamKazam, and have found that for 2 people we've had a surprisingly good experience of being able to play together in real time.

The JamKazam platform is still running but it seems that it is no longer fully supported, so much of the help information that's supposed to be available is in fact missing.

As Gary says, it's important to reduce the latency in your audio gear - all of us have been using USB audio interfaces, using ASIO drivers in the case of Windows systems - and it's also necessary to connect using an Ethernet cable and not WiFi.

We still haven't tried scaling up to a larger group yet, and we're also not sure how many band members would want to get involved in something that might be quite tricky to set up and might involve purchase of new equipment.

So in the first instance we're going to try something a bit less real-time using Zoom instead.
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Jack Hare

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 05:23:40 PM »

Here in the West of Ireland we are trying to continue our now postponed weekly sessions simply by asking everyone to contribute their tunes to a dedicated website, just so that others can listen and learn. then, when we meet again, we'll all have a newly enriched repertoire! here's a link to our site:

https://swantonstownsessions.com/
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Graham Wood

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Re: Online live sessions
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 06:54:58 PM »

Here in the West of Ireland we are trying to continue our now postponed weekly sessions simply by asking everyone to contribute their tunes to a dedicated website, just so that others can listen and learn. then, when we meet again, we'll all have a newly enriched repertoire! here's a link to our site:

https://swantonstownsessions.com/

There are some great tunes on there. Thank you for sharing the site.
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