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Author Topic: "Eb Box"  (Read 1207 times)

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Peadar

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"Eb Box"
« on: March 19, 2020, 11:44:12 PM »

I believe this is an Irish term.

What exactly does it mean?
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Stiamh

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2020, 12:07:32 AM »

I believe this is an Irish term. What exactly does it mean?

For Irish players, it means a C/C# box (for B/C squeezers) or D/D# (for C#/D squeezers).

Explanation: in each case ride the "Eb" box as though it were your ordinary steed and hey presto you'll be playing everything a semitone up. A number of Irish bands did this starting in the 1970s for a bright, lively sound. (Check out anything by De Dannan.) Fiddlers tuned all the strings up a semitone, flute players found old band Eb flutes, and box players picked up old C/C# or D/D# accordions. Pipers were out of luck.  ;)

PS The corollary is that for C#/D players, a C/C# box is, well, a C# box, and for B/C players, a D/D# is an F machine. 



Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2020, 12:17:59 AM »

Do they go down as well as up? Bb  boxes?
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Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Stiamh

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2020, 12:26:40 AM »

Do they go down as well as up? Bb  boxes?

The thing is, loads of old C/C# and D/D# boxes were lying around waiting to be re-purposed. Not many G/G# and A/A# machines out there.

mselic

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 01:26:29 AM »

Do they go down as well as up? Bb  boxes?

It’s funny - I was just talking about this the other day in another thread. I think Bb sessions would sound lovely.
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Nigel.H

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2020, 08:50:26 AM »

Is there any market for 'early' C/C# Hohner Pokerwood "low note" reed block 'sets'.  In my early onset MADness for reasons of confusion/opportunity, as much as intent, I have a German built Box, in that tuning.  I want to re-fit in in A.N.Other tuning.  I am not sure whether to sell the blocks 'as is' for someone to 'plug and play', strip the reeds and re-fit the blocks with Fraton reeds of my choice, or source pre-reeded blocks.
 
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boxcall

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2020, 11:14:47 AM »

Do they go down as well as up? Bb  boxes?

It’s funny - I was just talking about this the other day in another thread. I think Bb sessions would sound lovely.
I have just the box for that now (:)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2020, 11:23:58 AM »

Do they go down as well as up? Bb  boxes?
It’s funny - I was just talking about this the other day in another thread. I think Bb sessions would sound lovely

Absolutely they do! I’ve been to about 5 and organised 2 at Whitby. It’s not all about Bb either. We play a modal instrument and so tunes or songs in Cm dorian and Gm can happen too

But for me the real joy is attracting brass instruments in to play with us.
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Peadar

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2020, 10:23:01 AM »

I believe this is an Irish term. What exactly does it mean?

For Irish players, it means a C/C# box (for B/C squeezers) or D/D# (for C#/D squeezers).

Explanation: in each case ride the "Eb" box as though it were your ordinary steed and hey presto you'll be playing everything a semitone up. A number of Irish bands did this starting in the 1970s for a bright, lively sound. (Check out anything by De Dannan.) Fiddlers tuned all the strings up a semitone, flute players found old band Eb flutes, and box players picked up old C/C# or D/D# accordions. Pipers were out of luck.  ;)

PS The corollary is that for C#/D players, a C/C# box is, well, a C# box, and for B/C players, a D/D# is an F machine.

Thanks Stiamh - It does mean what I thought it meant- but only having heard the term in passing conversation at a house ceilidh I wanted to make sure. I read somirish ewhere that Irish box players refer to playing in the key of D as playing "at concert pitch". So if one thinks, not unreasonably, of D as the home key of "Irish Traditional Music" playing a C/C# box as though you were playing a B/C in the key of D produces music in D# aka Eb.

Which takes us back to the Wyper method of playing C/C# boxes inside out - reading the C# row as the C row when playing in the" sharp" keys- G, D, A. And accepting that this resulted in playing a semitone sharp. (Or playing in Old High Philarmonic pitch, if your C/C# was concert tuned to A435).

NB I am not saying that the concept of this as "Eb" pre-dates the 1970's.

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Peadar

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2020, 08:52:49 PM »

Just to clarify - The Wyper method of playing a British Chromatic (C/C#) used the outer row as home row for the key of C major and the "Flat" Keys F, Bb, Eb etc. So these keys were played at the actual pitch of the instrument.




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Stiamh

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2020, 09:07:33 PM »

Just to clarify - The Wyper method of playing a British Chromatic (C/C#) used the outer row as home row for the key of C major and the "Flat" Keys F, Bb, Eb etc. So these keys were played at the actual pitch of the instrument.

Pretty much academic interest only, Peadar. Wyper himself pointed the way to B/C in his tutor and then had B/Cs made.

c. 1880 C/C# = a good idea
c. 1915 B/C = a better C/C#
c. 1970 C/C# = a brighter B/C

Peadar

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Re: "Eb Box"
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2020, 11:27:46 PM »


Pretty much academic interest only, Peadar. Wyper himself pointed the way to B/C in his tutor and then had B/Cs made.


But why  I wondered, B/C rather than C#/D, for music predominantely in the key of D?

Jimmy Shand may have provided a very (presbyterian) Scottish answer when he reminisced about the melodeon being used in his childhood to play hymn tunes (frequently in flat keys) around the fireside on a Sunday evening.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:51:56 AM by Peadar »
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