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Author Topic: Slipping stops  (Read 1792 times)

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Nigel.H

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Slipping stops
« on: April 06, 2020, 09:48:14 AM »

I have a 4-stop one row, it has some age to it and a couple of the 'stops' are slipping.  It looks as if there used to be two slivers of veneer thickness material to restrict their position, now reduced to 1/2, 1 & minimally 2.
I am thinking a leather gasket of suitable thickness, punched small to create a nice positive grip on the slides would be an upgrade.  Can anyone supply an image of what should be there before I weigh in ?

N
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Julian S

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2020, 10:04:53 AM »

Of course, short (or even long! ) term solution seems to be the use of clothes pegs...

J

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Lester

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2020, 10:11:03 AM »

A more elegant solution to clothes pegs is to buy some 1/4" diameter neodymium magnets. Remove the stops and drill at 90 degrees to the stop hole, replace the stops and pop in the magnets. All my 114s have this and it works just fine.


https://imgur.com/a/nUCM8PR

Anahata

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2020, 10:17:01 AM »

I've used Lester's magnets method on my Black 114C.

Another solution I've heard of is to cut a small groove round the rod and place a spring so it snaps into the groove when the stop is up. The groove obviously has to be shallow enough that you can push the stop down when you want to.

I believe nylon bushes have also been deployed for this purpose.
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Lester

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2020, 10:41:17 AM »

I've used Lester's magnets method on my Black 114C.


I'm not the originator of the idea, it was an adaptation of some work by Marc Serafini

Nigel.H

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2020, 10:58:38 AM »

Excellent - I think I can manage that.....
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chris hall

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2020, 02:31:55 PM »

re magnets. is it the 6mm x 1mm or the 6mm x 3mm you all use (n50) ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Very-Strong-Magnets-6mm-10mm-12mm-15mm-Round-Various-Depths-1mm-2mm-3mm-5mm/372841535335?hash=item56cf165767:m:mc6qRQ_2K_CLXZ2iVUm8W4A

my stops are so loose on one of my accordions that they barely last one tune nowadays! consequently in loosing air too....any preferred fixes to make it more airtight? wax? glue? liquid metal?
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Lester

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Pete Dunk

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2020, 11:28:09 PM »

A quick and cheap temporary fix is to use two elasticated hairbands, use one doubled up to join two stops together. The slight sideways pull gives enough friction to keep the stops where you put them and is far less unsightly than using clothes pegs.
The magnets are a much better long term solution
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george garside

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2020, 12:51:54 AM »

on my much played hohner 114 I use a single black ladies hairband that is a tight fit round all 4 stops and works much better and lasts much longer than an elastic band.  the ones I use are from 'The Range' shops  and are just the right length as they come out of the packet.

george
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mselic

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2020, 11:11:44 PM »

A more elegant solution to clothes pegs is to buy some 1/4" diameter neodymium magnets. Remove the stops and drill at 90 degrees to the stop hole, replace the stops and pop in the magnets. All my 114s have this and it works just fine.


https://imgur.com/a/nUCM8PR

Lester, do you drill right through to where the stop shafts would be, the magnets then being held in place by making contact with the metal shafts?
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boxcall

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2020, 11:31:36 PM »

A more elegant solution to clothes pegs is to buy some 1/4" diameter neodymium magnets. Remove the stops and drill at 90 degrees to the stop hole, replace the stops and pop in the magnets. All my 114s have this and it works just fine.


https://imgur.com/a/nUCM8PR

Lester, do you drill right through to where the stop shafts would be, the magnets then being held in place by making contact with the metal shafts?
removal of the stops /shafts would imply that , I would think you could leave a little wood and still have the holding affect? If thin enough. Going to test this with some magnets on hand.
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Lester

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2020, 08:08:54 AM »

A more elegant solution to clothes pegs is to buy some 1/4" diameter neodymium magnets. Remove the stops and drill at 90 degrees to the stop hole, replace the stops and pop in the magnets. All my 114s have this and it works just fine.


https://imgur.com/a/nUCM8PR

Lester, do you drill right through to where the stop shafts would be, the magnets then being held in place by making contact with the metal shafts?


Yes

tirpous

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2020, 03:35:59 PM »

Would it work with smaller diameter magnets ? 
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Theo

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2020, 03:38:55 PM »

It does I use smaller ones, about 4mm I think.
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tirpous

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2020, 04:08:32 PM »

Thanks Theo !
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mselic

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2020, 08:46:05 PM »

I used 4mm (1/8”) magnets this morning and it works great. I ended up putting two magnets in each drilled-out hole, doubling them up to increase their strength. Magnets are definitely the way to go about fixing sagging stops!
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Chris Taylor

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2020, 10:24:51 AM »

I've always used a heavy duty elastic band on my Hohner 4 stop - ever since I saw Oscar Woods at the Blaxhall Ship about 40 years ago!
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Bob Godfried

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2020, 06:53:15 PM »

I've been able to restore the "friction fit" originally holding the pull stops in place by running a fine line of cyanoacrylate glue down the wall of the stop rod hole in the end frame. The stop rods are removed and top/outer and bottom/inner holes are sealed with masking tape. A hole is cut in the top masking tape with a fine point craft knife. Some cyanoacrylate accelerator may also help to form an irregular surface, providing an "interference fit." A coarse round (aka "mouse tail") jeweler's file can relieve the binding to provide a satisfactory fit. I'm very impressed with the magnet solution. I've seen boxes that had a recessed set screw entering from the edge that exerted pressure on the side of the pull stop rod.
Also, while we're on the subject, I find that the Hohner HA-114 uses unnecessarily heavy gauge (approx .025"/0.63mm dia.) treble key springs since it has fairly long & heavy pallet valves. I've found that substituting slightly lighter gauge (approx .022"/0.56mm dia.) springs works fine & improves the action considerably. I used to order the light springs directly from Hohner (part #TA20151), but I have been winding my own replacement springs from #9 gauge (.022"/0.56mm dia.) music wire with considerable success for some while.
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mselic

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Re: Slipping stops
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2020, 04:22:45 AM »

Also, while we're on the subject, I find that the Hohner HA-114 uses unnecessarily heavy gauge (approx .025"/0.63mm dia.) treble key springs since it has fairly long & heavy pallet valves. I've found that substituting slightly lighter gauge (approx .022"/0.56mm dia.) springs works fine & improves the action considerably. I used to order the light springs directly from Hohner (part #TA20151), but I have been winding my own replacement springs from #9 gauge (.022"/0.56mm dia.) music wire with considerable success for some while.

The treble side springs on those are indeed much more stiff than they actually need to be; they can be lightened a fair bit without compromising compression or the 'snappiness' of the action.  One quick method of adjusting tension is simply to reach in with curved pliers (with the grill off) and put a small kink or bend in the length of spring that rests on the key lever.  You need to take the load off the spring by unhooking it from the lever first.  If you can put the bend in the right place (as close to the coil as possible) you can actually adjust them as light as you want, and certainly lighter than you'd ever want to.  The nice thing about this method is that you can easily adjust the springs and test as you go, making adjustments as needed.  If you've gone too far, you simply reach in and straighten out the bend a little and the tension is back.  The keyboard, axle rod, levers, etc never need to come off.  I've done this on many HA114s and it's pretty quick and hassle free.

I also make my own springs, too, mind you.

Regarding the slipping stops, the nice thing about the magnets is that it should be a permanent fix.  In the past I've filled in the stop holes and then re-drilled them to get a friction fit, but they will likely sag again in time.  Here in Quebec, changing humidity levels throughout the year mean that in winter the stops on some of my HA114s get so stiff they won't even move, but the same stops will sag come summer, making relying on a friction fit far from ideal.
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