Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G  (Read 854 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Steve_freereeder

  • Grumpy old git (sometimes)
  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6771
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2020, 03:49:02 PM »

My terminology was incorrect.  Thanks everyone for your reply.  I have it figured out now.

Excellent! Good luck with your playing. Do stick around and let us know how you are getting on.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

arty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1245
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2020, 04:04:32 PM »

In IPN, C4 is always middle C.
I think we got that now. Thank you.

If I might add an aside....I had an Uncle, who was a composer and a really accomplished musician. He used to refer to 'Middle C' as 'Four Foot C'. I asked him once, why he called it thus and his answer was, 'because the length of the Middle C pipe on an organ is Four feet'.
I am wondering if this is the reason it is referred to here, as C4 ?
Logged
Pre-Pokerwork C/F, Castagnari Laura G/C, Beltuna Sara 3 A/D

Sebastian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1047
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2020, 04:41:53 PM »

I am wondering if this is the reason it is referred to here, as C4 ?
No, that’s not related. If you really want to dig into note naming conventions, you could start there: https://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm
Logged
Weltmeister 86w in C/F | Fraton Club in Bb/Eb | Hohner 114 in C | Hohner Preciosa in C/F

Dick Rees

  • Neo-Luddite
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 595
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2020, 05:24:16 PM »

In IPN, C4 is always middle C.
I think we got that now. Thank you.

If I might add an aside....I had an Uncle, who was a composer and a really accomplished musician. He used to refer to 'Middle C' as 'Four Foot C'. I asked him once, why he called it thus and his answer was, 'because the length of the Middle C pipe on an organ is Four feet'.
I am wondering if this is the reason it is referred to here, as C4 ?

I think it's coincidental.
Logged
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...Thelonius Monk

Geolocation: directly above the center of the Earth.

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2954
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2020, 05:44:54 PM »


If I might add an aside....I had an Uncle, who was a composer and a really accomplished musician. He used to refer to 'Middle C' as 'Four Foot C'. I asked him once, why he called it thus and his answer was, 'because the length of the Middle C pipe on an organ is Four feet'.
I am wondering if this is the reason it is referred to here, as C4 ?

Erm, I think that would make the octave C below middle C C8 and the octave C above it C2.
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Pressed Wood 1040C

Sebastian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1047
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2020, 06:39:57 PM »

Erm, I think that would make the octave C below middle C C8 and the octave C above it C2.
;D Yes.

(In reality, middle C is produced by a two feet pipe.)
Logged
Weltmeister 86w in C/F | Fraton Club in Bb/Eb | Hohner 114 in C | Hohner Preciosa in C/F

Peadar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 852
  • Is fhearr Gaidhlig bhriste na Beurla caithte
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2020, 07:25:50 PM »

Two foot pipe....Closed or open? A closed end two foot pipe produces the same natural frequency as an open ended four foot.

And I genuinely don't know whether organ pipes are closed or open. I do know that the enormous organ pipes that many 18th - 19 th  century church organs exhibited were dummies with the rather smaller working pipes hidden behind them.



Logged
Bogsa neo dha......air fhicead

Sebastian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1047
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2020, 08:12:54 PM »

Two foot pipe....Closed or open?
Ok, let’s get technical.  ::)

Wavelength in m is velocity of propagation divided by frequency. Velocity of sound in air under normal pressure and at 20° C is around 343 m/s. The frequency of middle C is about 262 Hz. The wavelength of middle C therefor is ca. 1.31 m.

The foot measurements for organ registers refer to normal organ pipes (principals). They are open pipes. Acoustically they have to open ends, thus producing one node at each end. Therefore the wave-length they produce is twice the acoustically effective pipe-length.

To produce a wavelenght of 1.31 m, you need a pipe of ca. 65 cm. A foot in organ building is ca. 32 cm. Therefore you need a 2' pipe to produce middle C.

A closed pipe has one open end and one closed end. They produce one node at one end and one antinode at the other end. Therefore the wave-length they produce is four times the length of the pipe. To produce a wavelength of 1.31 m, you need a pipe of ca. 32.something cm or 1'.
Logged
Weltmeister 86w in C/F | Fraton Club in Bb/Eb | Hohner 114 in C | Hohner Preciosa in C/F

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5277
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2020, 08:15:25 PM »

And I genuinely don't know whether organ pipes are closed or open.

Both.
Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh bands: www.fourhandband.co.uk www.barleycoteband.co.uk

tirpous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 583
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2020, 08:32:09 PM »

Quote
I do know that the enormous organ pipes that many 18th - 19 th  century church organs exhibited were dummies with the rather smaller working pipes hidden behind them.

There may be instances of dummy pipes, but I think the visible pipes can also be part of a working organ stop.  This stop is called 'montre' (=show) in French.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 08:38:37 PM by tirpous »
Logged

Winston Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2402
  • AKA Edward Jennings
    • "Our Luxor B&B" Luxor life, slice by slice.
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2020, 10:50:57 PM »

Where's Owen when you need him?
Logged
At last, broken and resigned to accept conformity.
Oh, how I LOVE Big Brother!

Peadar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 852
  • Is fhearr Gaidhlig bhriste na Beurla caithte
Re: newbie having confusion with matching notes to C/G
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2020, 11:34:49 PM »

Sebastian- Thank you for getting technical. Clear and concise. Very much appreciated. (:)
Logged
Bogsa neo dha......air fhicead
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal