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Author Topic: Performance structure  (Read 1728 times)

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The Oul' Boy

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Performance structure
« on: May 05, 2020, 01:16:52 PM »

Something I've been wondering about is the structure of the performance of tunes (if that's the right way of putting it), especially now I'm getting to the point of being able to play through single iterations of tunes without making disastrous blunders and want to keep going with them. Say a tune has parts A, B, and maybe C, how many times do you play each, in what sequences, etc.? Some tunes seem to fit AABB, others ABAB, and I occasionally see musical scores preceded by useful things like 2(2A2B)2(2A2C). But are there any rules or broad patterns to all of this, or ought it be noted for each tune?
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Warren M (Edinburgh, formerly Tyneside and Tyrone)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 02:02:01 PM »

If by "performance" you mean playing in public, it depends on the context of the performance.

If it's a session, you will probably encounter parts in pairs (AA, BB, etc) three times through, more than anything else. Listen carefully, though. The person who starts the tune should have control of order (and tempo) and they may think different.

If it's dance the structure will be defined by the dance. A fair few of ours go ABB, ABB etc. In sessions, we often play the structure we use for dance. With some short dances, such as Ring O'Bells, which have an assymetrical structure (off the top of my head, something like A BB, A BB, AA, BBB) we will play the tune in that order, if one of us starts it.

If it's a band or solo performance for an audience (busking or stage), it's up to the performers to decide what works best. You will often hear AA BB, or A BB played twice through. Gives people less time to become bored with the tune, if nothing else. You even hear tunes mashed up with each other. No rules.
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Greg Smith
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The Oul' Boy

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2020, 02:23:00 PM »

Thanks Greg. By 'performance', I mean any play through of the tune (in my case so far at home only, playing in the garden being my only offerings to the general public so far!). I'm just wondering if there is a usual or expected way to play particular tunes or tunes of specific types in particular ways.
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Warren M (Edinburgh, formerly Tyneside and Tyrone)
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2020, 02:34:15 PM »

Thanks Greg. By 'performance', I mean any play through of the tune (in my case so far at home only, playing in the garden being my only offerings to the general public so far!). I'm just wondering if there is a usual or expected way to play particular tunes or tunes of specific types in particular ways.

What I said, then. The most common way is 3(AABB), but it's up to the player.
I would say, imagine you're playing for a small audience and try not to bore them. Slow tunes once or twice through, followed by faster tunes three times through works well.
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Greg Smith
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Lester

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2020, 03:46:43 PM »

The '2(2A2B)2(2A2C)' to which you referred was almost certainly the 'formula' for playing a tune for a dance, and almost certainly a morris dance.

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2020, 03:52:31 PM »

Yes I concur with Greg.
For normal session stuff I'd play AABB and play it 3 times through for an average tune.

The odd ones as you quote are possibly things such a Morris dance tunes. In such tunes where there is C music, it is sometimes when 'slows' are concerned. The music is often a slower version of the B music slowed and tweaked to allow the steps to be performed. Nothing for you to worry about for session tunes!
Q
Ah Lester's replied saying similar....
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

The Oul' Boy

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2020, 04:14:25 PM »

Thanks all! Yes, that 2(2A2B)2(2A2C) was William and Nancy, as annotated for Morris, though in the case of that tune, the C part, whilst 'slow', isn't a variation on the others. Still not sure what to do with more regular tunes (e.g. Lillibulero) which can have a C part (as per Daddy Long Les's performance of it, though of course I could just copy what he and others do).
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Warren M (Edinburgh, formerly Tyneside and Tyrone)
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Lester

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 04:24:20 PM »

Mostly, but not always, with English tunes you will play either as 32 bar (tunes with two parts) or 48 bar (tunes with three parts)

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2020, 05:31:17 PM »

...Still not sure what to do with more regular tunes (e.g. Lillibulero) which can have a C part (as per Daddy Long Les's performance of it, though of course I could just copy what he and others do).

Copying someone else's performance that you like is often the best way to start.
FWIW we dance Styx of Stroud's setting of Brimfield. That has parts A, B and C.
The order goes ABAC ABAC - 8 beat drum solo -  ABAC ABAC. That's the complete dance.
Just to make it more fun, the A part is from one tune, the B and C parts are another. 
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Greg Smith
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

rees

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2020, 10:15:27 PM »

Some advice given to me by a very well respected English country fiddler - "The music don't mind".
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2020, 11:53:35 PM »

no, it doesn’t, but people do!

In a session, try to obey custom and practice. 

Playing solo - be creative!
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george garside

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2020, 12:13:29 AM »

what others have said about playing for dancing of whatever sort   or  session playing. 

If however you are playing solo or in some sort of 'group'  or even street busking for an 'audience it is important keep in mind that you are playing for 'them' rather than 'you'. 

 This  throws the emphasis on making  your music listenable rather then ( or perhaps as well as) danceable, and possibly joininable or perhaps singalongable. Most stuff will be AB( verse chorus) but some could be AAAA etc i.e same tune for verse and chorus.

playing with good rhythm , dynamics and phrasing is  more important when 'entertaining'  but should of course be equally important when playing for dancing or session playing.

george















   
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Howard Jones

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2020, 10:46:53 AM »

Three times through seems to be the session convention.  However don't be afraid to give a tune more time to develop - but if you're going to do that, then do develop it and don't just keep playing it the same way over and over.

rees

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2020, 08:35:06 PM »

no, it doesn’t, but people do!

In a session, try to obey custom and practice. 


I play much of my session tunes AB because that's the way I like and enjoy them. They would normally be played AABB in a session.
Who's right?
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Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
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Lester

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2020, 08:36:26 PM »

no, it doesn’t, but people do!

In a session, try to obey custom and practice. 


I play much of my session tunes AB because that's the way I like and enjoy them. They would normally be played AABB in a session.
Who's right?


If you start the tune you are!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2020, 08:57:37 PM »

You are right in every way Lester!
At my last session I was twiddling a tune that I often start with at home, I played my way ( Calum's Road, in D heavily influenced by Owen of this parish ).
I got a 'we don't normally play it in that key' from a fiddler who I am always trying to keep up with, fiddle tunes I don't know played really fast which never impresses me.
Before I could stop it I heard my mouth saying 'my tune my key' to the amusement of several whilst others were complimenting me on key choice.

Remember, your tune, play it how you want!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Steve_freereeder

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2020, 12:44:21 AM »

You are right in every way Lester!
At my last session I was twiddling a tune that I often start with at home, I played my way ( Calum's Road, in D heavily influenced by Owen of this parish ).
I got a 'we don't normally play it in that key' from a fiddler who I am always trying to keep up with, fiddle tunes I don't know played really fast which never impresses me.
Before I could stop it I heard my mouth saying 'my tune my key' to the amusement of several whilst others were complimenting me on key choice.

Remember, your tune, play it how you want!
Q

Calum's Road was written by Donald Shaw of the band Capercaillie. He wrote it in the key of D, so you are in very good company to play it in that key! (tell your fiddle playing friend too!)

Here it is being played by Capercaillie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqrxbJp0ons
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Performance structure
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2020, 09:05:18 AM »

Thank you for that Steve, and especially the link.
I knew it was Capercaillie but don't recall ever hearing the original. I remember enjoying the tune when Owen was giving a tour of his then new Bergflodt so based it on that. We are both playing it as per written, slow with a lilt
How tunes evolve is an interesting subject. The way the fiddles play it is as a quicker snapper schottische.
Mind you, as said often, the tune won't mind either way!

Lovely tune with a fascinating story behind it.
Thanks for the info.
Cheers.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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