Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice  (Read 3654 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tirpous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2020, 05:49:14 PM »

If you like the 1-row, you could get one in D and switch to banjo when the tunes in G or A come along (and cannot be 'faked').  This may encourage the fiddlers to play more tunes in D !  ;)

Seriously, it's a way to get a feel for the box, see if you like it.  You can always get a 2-row later, maybe being in a position to make a more informed choice at that point.  All the 'systems' are based on the same diatonic row layout, so it's transferable experience.
Logged

Nic Pennsylvania

  • Lombardi A/D & B/E
  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Northern Appalachia Accordion
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2020, 01:36:44 AM »

Nic-
I'm in western NY state so possibly a few hours drive for you. I have more than 100 button accordions in stock and in just about every key imaginable. I normally welcome visitors to my shop with an appointment although currently on pause for another week or two.

Thank you, Scott. I've been on your website and I will send you a message there. I am a little ways north of Pittsburgh and I do not know if I will be able to get up to Rochester in the near future. Coincidentally, most of the banjos built for me are made not too far from you.

Admittedly, my knowledge of melodeon layout and tuning systems comes almost exclusively from the layouts which are provided on this site. I figured that these were common, but not necessarily exclusive. I think I may lean toward the D/G as those are common keys for me, as are their dorian, mixolydian, and aeolian modes. There's more than a lifetime worth of songs within those confines. If I really take to it and find I MUST have the possibility of A or C, I can always look for another box.
Logged
Northern Appalachia Accordion

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2020, 08:25:43 AM »

Admittedly, my knowledge of melodeon layout and tuning systems comes almost exclusively from the layouts which are provided on this site. I figured that these were common, but not necessarily exclusive. I think I may lean toward the D/G as those are common keys for me, as are their dorian, mixolydian, and aeolian modes. There's more than a lifetime worth of songs within those confines. If I really take to it and find I MUST have the possibility of A or C, I can always look for another box.
With a D/G melodeon with the two standard chin-end accidentals (F5/Eb5 and Bb4/G#4) it is quite possible to play in A or C with a little bit of additional practice. Sometimes you might find that the accidentals are in the wrong octave but usually it is possible to 'fudge' the tune so that it sounds OK. What, at first sight, might be the restrictions of the two-row 4th apart system can actually turn out to be a creative joy.

A two-and-a-half row 4th apart box gives you even more options regarding accidentals, but the trade off is extra weight and cost. My advice to a beginner would nearly always be to restrict yourself to a two-row instrument at first, in order to really get to grips with the basic (and more advanced) things it can do (which is a lot!). You can always move on to a two-and-a-half row instrument at a later date. Your first melodeon will rarely be your last.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Nic Pennsylvania

  • Lombardi A/D & B/E
  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Northern Appalachia Accordion
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 01:12:24 PM »

Hello, all.

Thanks again for all the advice. There is a lot to learn and I will be starting my studies with an AD Lombardi marked Hohner thanks to member Scott Bellinger. Prior to it being in my hands, I will be familiarizing myself with the layout and I may write out a couple familiar songs to start out with. I understand that a lot of folks here recommend Speed the Plow, so that may go on my list of first two or three to work with.
Logged
Northern Appalachia Accordion

Peadar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1939
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2020, 01:22:57 PM »

AD - Good Choice! 

(Though in truth whatever you feel you want to try is always the best choice)
Logged
Why should the devil have all the best instruments???

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2020, 01:48:42 PM »

I started on Speed the Plough. Grand ol’ Duke of York is also intuitive, even easier, and develops bellow feel.

They say “he had 10,000 men” 🤔 excelled only by her Grace the Dutchess 😉
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4929
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2020, 01:58:30 PM »

Johnny, aka The Theme Fom Z Cars is another good starter tune
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Peadar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1939
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2020, 02:33:42 PM »

Johnny, aka The Theme Fom Z Cars is another good starter tune

I think you mean Johnny Todd

Johnny Todd he took a notion
For to sail the ocean wide,
But he left his true love grieving,
Weeping by the Liver Pool side.
Logged
Why should the devil have all the best instruments???

Andrew Kennedy

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 152
    • About Sword Dancing
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2020, 03:19:32 PM »

This all started for me when I was 10 or 11 and a great-uncle handed me a mouth organ and said I could keep it if I could get a tune out of it the next time I saw him. I learnt Z Cars, as I knew it, and worried that it wasn't a 'proper' tune. I kept the gob iron.

When I came to the melodeon, about 15 years later, I found that I had no problems either in finding my way up and down the keyboard (it was a one-row) or knowing when to pull or push the bellows.

And incidentally, my first melodeon was a tatty 114 bought for £25 off a market stall. Ebay seems to have put a stop to that.
Logged

Sebastian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1056
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2020, 03:48:54 PM »

I understand that a lot of folks here recommend Speed the Plow, so that may go on my list of first two or three to work with.
Any nursery rhyme is suitable in the beginning. No need to write out anything. That comes later anyway.

and worried that it wasn't a 'proper' tune.
;D
Logged

Nic Pennsylvania

  • Lombardi A/D & B/E
  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Northern Appalachia Accordion
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2020, 04:15:20 PM »

Any nursery rhyme is suitable in the beginning. No need to write out anything. That comes later anyway.

Writing things out helps me internalize things. Nursery rhymes are great, but the reason why they are chosen because the melodies are often simple and it can be assumed that most people have some harmonic memory of them. For me, a tune like Devil's Dream is a good starter, because I know it so well. What's more, Devil's Dream is, particularly the A section, a good scale exercise. It will be a short while before I have the melodeon in my hands, so writing helps me make those connections between the abstract notes on a page and the physical location of those notes.
Logged
Northern Appalachia Accordion

Gena Crisman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1041
  • 🇬🇧
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2020, 05:06:43 PM »

I think nursery rhymes make sense for people who are new to music, not new new to a given instrument. I'm not going to pick up, idk a harp, and think 'ah yes, the thing to do is play humpty dumpty'.

Here's hoping you get on well with the box when it gets to you, Nic. Are you planning to just sort of, figure it out yourself? Or, have you looked for tutelage books/tutors or w/e. Most books I've read are 50/50 on 'how to music' and 'how to melodeon'. Speed the Plough and Winster Gallop are tunes that people often cite as their first tune on the instrument. But IMO they're kinda just used as veiled lessons, being as they're relatively simple tunes while also being good examples of unmuddled in/out and fixed direction passages. Really anything with a mix of scales and arpeggios is probably just fine to get your eye in.
Logged

Dick Rees

  • Neo-Luddite
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1240
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2020, 05:56:02 PM »

I think nursery rhymes make sense for people who are new to music, not new new to a given instrument. I'm not going to pick up, idk a harp, and think 'ah yes, the thing to do is play humpty dumpty'.

AMEN.

Duple meter: Do you know the muffin man.  Twinkle, twinkle little star.
3/4 time: Happy birthday.  Doggy in the window.  Where has my little dog gone?
6/8 time: Pop goes the weasel.  Mickey Mouse. 




Logged
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...Thelonius Monk

"I never made one of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking."
...Albert Einstein

Cogito ergo bibo.
...Bacchus

Dick Rees

  • Neo-Luddite
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1240
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2020, 06:14:09 PM »

Any nursery rhyme is suitable in the beginning. No need to write out anything. That comes later anyway.

Writing things out helps me internalize things. Nursery rhymes are great, but the reason why they are chosen because the melodies are often simple and it can be assumed that most people have some harmonic memory of them. For me, a tune like Devil's Dream is a good starter, because I know it so well. What's more, Devil's Dream is, particularly the A section, a good scale exercise. It will be a short while before I have the melodeon in my hands, so writing helps me make those connections between the abstract notes on a page and the physical location of those notes.

As both fiddler and box player, I'd rank DDream as an advanced tune and less suited to beginning. Choose box tunes when learning the box.  Fiddle tunes are a much longer-term project no matter how well you know them in your head.  But...

Many fiddle tunes have migrated over the last few centuries (soldiers and sailors) and surfaced in other cultures.  Tunes like Soldiers Joy and even Devils Dream/Mason's Apron show up in Scandinavia as Engelska or Ril in versions much more "box-friendly".
I'll see if I can find some examples to link.

Edit for links:

https://youtu.be/E09JBgrguLs

https://youtu.be/acDAazn8jZg

« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 06:35:47 PM by Dick Rees »
Logged
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...Thelonius Monk

"I never made one of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking."
...Albert Einstein

Cogito ergo bibo.
...Bacchus

Nic Pennsylvania

  • Lombardi A/D & B/E
  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Northern Appalachia Accordion
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2020, 06:53:02 PM »

As both fiddler and box player, I'd rank DDream as an advanced tune and less suited to beginning. Choose box tunes when learning the box.  Fiddle tunes are a much longer-term project no matter how well you know them in your head.  But...

Many fiddle tunes have migrated over the last few centuries (soldiers and sailors) and surfaced in other cultures.  Tunes like Soldiers Joy and even Devils Dream/Mason's Apron show up in Scandinavia as Engelska or Ril in versions much more "box-friendly".
I'll see if I can find some examples to link.


I'll have to check these out. Devil's Dream is a tune I'm comfortable with on guitar, banjo, tenor banjo, mandola, bowed psaltery, lap steel, and pedal steel guitar. Having said that, I realize that these instruments are more similar to one another than any of them are to the melodeon. I will definitely look up these other versions. Another of my go to songs is The Lass of Richmond Hill.

I'll be taking things slowly. I anticipate the first big barriers will be coordination on the push and pull and developing a feel for that.
Logged
Northern Appalachia Accordion

Dick Rees

  • Neo-Luddite
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1240
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2020, 06:58:38 PM »

Not that it can't be done, but a 4th apart two-row diatonic will make you sweat and raise blisters trying to play a note-for-note fiddle version.  Like I said, it's a project of several years to come to terms with such tunes.  Fortunately, there are hundreds of more accessible tunes for the interim.
Logged
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...Thelonius Monk

"I never made one of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking."
...Albert Einstein

Cogito ergo bibo.
...Bacchus

Nic Pennsylvania

  • Lombardi A/D & B/E
  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
  • Northern Appalachia Accordion
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2020, 07:00:28 PM »

Ha! Message heard loud and clear.
Logged
Northern Appalachia Accordion

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2020, 08:56:52 PM »

Actually Devil's Dream (assuming you play it in A and you have a box with an A row) isn't that tricky - providing you play it in the middle octave, an octave lower than it would be on fiddle, and providing you don't expect to play it at 120 bpm immediately. And if Nic knows it well, it may be the equivalent of a nursery rhyme for him.

The point of starting with nursery rhymes or Christmas carols is that you don't have to learn them and you can concentrate on where the notes are on the instrument. I make the suggestion to anyone starting a new melody instrument, especially one as perverse as the diatonic button accordion  ;) And Gena, Humpty Dumpty would be a pretty good tune to start with - in the guise of the jig Off She Goes - for someone who thought they were above nursery rhymes  :|glug

Tone Dumb Greg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4929
    • Dartmoor Border Morris
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2020, 09:06:00 PM »

... Humpty Dumpty would be a pretty good tune to start with - in the guise of the jig Off She Goes - for someone who thought they were above nursery rhymes  :|glug

As would Lilli Burlero, in the guise of Rock A Bye Baby
Logged
Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

Sebastian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1056
Re: Looking to Start and Seeking Advice
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2020, 10:15:43 PM »

I think nursery rhymes make sense for people who are new to music, not new new to a given instrument. I'm not going to pick up, idk a harp, and think 'ah yes, the thing to do is play humpty dumpty'.
Oops. :|bl I will get my first harp on monday (got the phone call today ;D ) and, well, that was more or less exactly what I intended to do, even after studying musicology at university in my youth and decades of battles with Bach, Pachelbel, Frank &c. (and parsons, freezing fingers, tumbling hymn-books and other  >:E’s) at the organ. 8)

But I’m more than willing to listen to your suggestions what I should do in lieu of Humpty Dumpty. (:)
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal