Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)  (Read 1875 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« on: May 28, 2020, 09:55:08 PM »

Hi, everyone.

I've been a musician for years, and a box player for only 5 of them. My experience for almost all those 5 years has been with a two-row, 21+2 Sérafini R2D2 which I love very much. Now, I want a Darwin (:) I really like the idea of the Darwin bass layout... so I'll be going with a three-row box, having no experience whatever of playing one. This discussion, therefore, doesn't require mention of the pros and cons of the Heim systems' chords availability, just the melody keyboard layouts.

Here's what I've gathered from studying the layouts so far:

Heim1 - First two rows identical to my 2-row, so would be just extending what I already know with no need to change anything in the right hand to play tunes already learned/learning. So far, so good. Reversed 'g' and 'a' on the helper row (on a G/C box. D/G equivalents - 'd' and 'e'. C/F equivalents - 'c' and 'd') which are really useful reversals for me. No reversed 'f' though (D/G's - 'c' and C/F's 'Bb') which would be a bonus and help with certain melodies.

Heim2 - Outer row identical to my 2-row, notwithstanding the extra notes. Fully Dutch reversed middle row, my pushed G# (D/G equivalent D#. C/F equivalent  C#) is in the same place as my 21+2, which is very useful as it gets used in some Am tunes (D/G's Em and C/F's Dm) - most of tunes I play at the moment are in Am... French stuff as befits the G/C, and it's why I bought a G/C box. Reversed 'f's on the helper row due to buttons released by the Dutchness of the middle row. (yay!).

I've mentioned the usefulness of the 'g' and 'a' reversal for me. With that in mind, I picked up a cheap Hohner Club II (21+4) a year ago from a mate. I had it refurbished, de-clubbed and converted to G/C by Mike Rowbotham, and had him fit the reversed 'g' and 'a' on the helper row. I could see the potential and usefulness, though found the button for it wasn't ideally placed. Also, the thing is, I didn't really get on with the sound of the box and almost never play it. I have in the last couple of days, however, used it to get some idea of what the Heim 2 might offer or cause problems by Dutch reversing button 5 (3rd button start) on the inner row. I much prefer this Dutch reversal to having the reversal on the helper row. I've found it easier to employ. It feels more natural. It doesn't, of course, give me any information about playing a fully Dutch reversed box.

Thanks for sticking with me so far.

I want to keep my 21+2 and I'd also like to play the same tunes on the 3-row Darwin. I'm wavering towards Heim2 because of the Dutch reversals and reversed 'f's. I get the feeling that it's more versatile. I may be making a mistake though. I reckon I'm only going to get one rather expensive shot at this. Heim1 seems the safer bet. I'd go for Heim2 if it wasn't to prove detrimental to my needs.

Your comments would be well appreciated, especially if anyone has a standard 2-row and a Heim2 box and can comment on how it is to use both systems and how well tunes translate from one to the other. Also, I may be missing something that's pertinent due to the unisonic nature of the Darwin side... and I wonder, does anyone have any experience of both Heim systems?

Oh, one last thing but not as important as the above; more of an afterthought really. If it lends itself to it due to having the available notes, I might like to delve (maybe... ish) into the Irish dance music, jigs and reels, etc. repertoire. I've been 4 times Northern Region (England) gold medalist C.C.E. mandolin player in the past. The tension due to the double strings and short scale began to cause numbness in my fingertips after about 10 years of regular session playing, it started to threaten my electric guitar playing career so I reluctantly packed in the mandolin playing. I sometimes miss playing that stuff. Chords not a consideration, does anyone have any views on which of the systems might be of benefit here too?

Thanks for wading through all this. I wanted to give as much information as I could as to the guidance I'm looking for and where my bonce is at concerning all this at the moment. Please fire away.  (:)

Best regards to all,
David.



Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56

Gena Crisman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1041
  • 🇬🇧
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2020, 10:05:28 PM »

Would you be able to supply web links to the layouts you'd like to talk about?
Logged

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3521
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 12:37:25 AM »

Hi, David.
I also play (well I used to, haven't picked it up in a couple of months) a Serafini R2D2 GC. I very quickly had the Dutch reversal, and then - against much advice went for the full reversals in all octaves. As I really don't play much in the way of Morris tunes etc. and often play passages in one direction, this suits me extremely well, and I have a DG box altered in the same way. It makes sense for me, and that's all I need to worry about.
Last year I very nearly bought a C3PO from Marc, and wanted to see what system he recommended. He'd already sold out of C3POs by the time my email reached him, and he was taking orders for March this year. Of course the world in general, my own particular bubble have changed in that period, and melodeons are currently top of my list.
He did however say, that with my current set up and interests, the Heim 2 was the better fit.
It doesn't sound as though you have a full reversal set up at the moment, but if you'd like to try my R2D2, I'm sure we could find a way. How that fits with the Irish stuff, I couldn't say, but you might find out if you played mine. Obviously we'd have to find a safe way.
Pete
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Serafini GC accs 18 bass

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3521
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 12:39:45 AM »

By the way, I'm up in Hexham.
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Serafini GC accs 18 bass

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 02:24:07 AM »

Hi, David.
I also play (well I used to, haven't picked it up in a couple of months) a Serafini R2D2 GC. I very quickly had the Dutch reversal, and then - against much advice went for the full reversals in all octaves. As I really don't play much in the way of Morris tunes etc. and often play passages in one direction, this suits me extremely well, and I have a DG box altered in the same way. It makes sense for me, and that's all I need to worry about.
Last year I very nearly bought a C3PO from Marc, and wanted to see what system he recommended. He'd already sold out of C3POs by the time my email reached him, and he was taking orders for March this year. Of course the world in general, my own particular bubble have changed in that period, and melodeons are currently top of my list.
He did however say, that with my current set up and interests, the Heim 2 was the better fit.
It doesn't sound as though you have a full reversal set up at the moment, but if you'd like to try my R2D2, I'm sure we could find a way. How that fits with the Irish stuff, I couldn't say, but you might find out if you played mine. Obviously we'd have to find a safe way.
Pete

Thanks for answering, Pete, much appreciated. I don't play any Morris tunes. Yes, I've seen several of your R2D2 videos on Youtube and have been aware of you for some time  (:) I didn't realise you had the full reversals. That's interesting. I'll take a closer look in the morning. As you know, Marc is excellent to deal with and I'll be taking his counsel too after I've delved farther into it and hopefully received some more wisdom here. If I do happen to dabble with the Irish session stuff (as I said, it's not my main concern at the moment), I'd be doing that in the standard keys/modes played in the sessions, mostly those you get using notes of the G and D scales, so I wouldn't be able to learn much from a 2-row G/C with full reversals on that score because I think I'd be using them in different places of the scale/mode when it contains a C#. It would be useful, however, to get an idea of how it would impact on my current playing and subsequent learning in the realms of the G/C repertoire and I'm blown away by your offer - again, if there were a way. I think it might be difficult to arrange in the current madness, but if there's a safe way... 
 

By the way, I'm up in Hexham.


I'm down Manchester way.
Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56

pete /acorn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 872
  • .Cast Trilly
    • Acorn Instruments
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 09:23:36 AM »

I have a GC Heim layout Castagnari Benny  and a GC acc Castagnari Handry 18 in stock

If of interest.

Pete
Logged
Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2020, 09:43:06 AM »

I tried out Dutch reversal in summer 2005 on my Oakwood. As it happened at François’s house in Chalap. His full layout involves inner row accidental choices, whereas I was/am on a a C#DG layout. Only my G row changed. I only inverted the middle D/E plates

It drove me mad! I’d been playing 20 years and on most of my repertoire I’d instinctively hit E when my finger expected D, usually with catastrophic effect.

Inversion IS better, simplifies note runs and opens up all manner of rt end chord extensions. I still have it on my Lily, recently loaned to a Lund protégée, now to my son in law, both new to instrument.

I re-flicked my plates and filed the duplicated pull Cs to D on my C# row to D, ie full scales on pull, chromatic  apart from Ab. Works well. 🙂

So 👍 to club for learners, but then stick with what you’ve learned. These are truly key notes on a DG. instrument. But IMHO full scale on pull is more important than push
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 09:44:43 AM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2020, 05:27:45 PM »

I have a GC Heim layout Castagnari Benny  and a GC acc Castagnari Handry 18 in stock

If of interest.

Pete
Thanks, Pete. Just to reiterate, I want a box with Marc Sérafini's Darwin layout on the bass side, and I'm only looking for help in respect of which system to have it fitted wth. Cheers.  (:)
Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2020, 05:53:42 PM »

Thanks, Chris. So far, the single reversal hasn't addled mi bonce much. I only had to make a slight fingering change when needing a non-reversed note and when I went back to my standard Sérafini, I was fine. I might have more trouble with a fully Dutch reversed row though. I don't know.

I also found that some of the tunes I know don't use that button anyway, so playing those on the single reversed box was no different. That could change if I had the next octave reversed too.

Almost all the tunes are in the pulled minor. I was looking at a passage today that would really benefit from a reversed 'f' ('c' on a D/G). It's on an off-beat between two pushed notes but gets to sound a little accentuated due to the bellows switches. Then I realised that I could get all three notes on the pull because the Darwin system will give me the chord I want because that side's unisonic. With Heim2, I could get all three notes on the push. ???
Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56

Schnorbitz

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 199
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2020, 06:35:36 PM »

Hi David
Interesting post. Funnily enough, I was thinking out the Darwin system this morning when I was out running. I've been looking at a new G/C 3 row and the front runners for some time have been a Castagnari Mas or Serafini Sanfona. Both lovely boxes. It's a shame that I just can't get two together to try. I found myself thinking about the Darwin and how the basses would change my playing.

I can't comment on Heim 2 (I've avoided reversals on the main rows to date as I like the idea of being able to pick up a standard two row and still play it - that said I can see loads of advantages of the reversals on the main rows). I can comment on Heim 1. I found that the system worked really well except for one change. On the third row I swapped the push A (G/C) or E (D/G) for a push Bb (G/C) or F (D/G). It opened up a lot of other minor keys and meant I had the Bb / F on the push and pull. I do not miss the push A (G/C) or E (D/G). Having done that I realised that I had swapped to Corgeron's system (I understand that Marc Serafini normally offers Heim / Heim 2 as standard but I thought I would throw this insight into the mix).

Three rows are tricky things. There are always compromises to be made. Good luck on your quest it will be interesting to see what you go for and how you get on. I am so tempted to go back back on Serafini's website and start browsing again!

Logged

Eshed

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2020, 07:41:38 PM »

Can't comment on the accidentals as I'm currently playing my own system, but reversals throughout and more important - consistency of notes in pull/push  - are a joy for me.
Since I went dutch reversal I fell in love. Widening it to the entire keyboard was a right move for me and the Heim 2 seems to be identical to that in the first two rows.
Logged
Do you have a Hohner from 1934-1945 with a serial number on?
Send me a private message or comment on the German Accordion Problem spreadsheet to improve the statistics of the project and get an estimate of the production date of the box if it is not known.

Gena Crisman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1041
  • 🇬🇧
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2020, 07:58:40 PM »

Well, I can't speak to much on this topic, but:

I can say that I have successfully reprogrammed myself to entirely stop using the inside row's low push duplicate on my 2 row - my hope is to repurpose them as extra accidentals some day, rather than reversals, but, the point is the same: I was able to change my behaviour over the course of several weeks. My method was to simply disable the reeds until I adapted. I also avoid the 'high' octave duplicate, although on the outside row, but this doesn't come up nearly as much.

That experience should, to some extent, perhaps combine with your experience so far in having dutched your box, and suggests to me that going full reversals across the instrument could possibly work for you.

I should note that due to scale length, the only pull duplicate I actually have is the middle one (the one that'd be flipped by the dutch reversal), and, I'm happy with that one in the orientation it is normally in.

I can't easily read the linked Solfège layouts, but, that isn't really required to understand the distinction; The linked Heim 2 'dutch reverses' the middle row so where normally duplicates of notes already on the outside row are found, their reversals are present. This means you don't need that reversal on the inside/acc row, so, you basically get an extra button in each octave (ie, 3 extra)

The benefits applied are:
  • Makes another 'accidental' available both ways, a pull Mib, aka Eb on a GC or Bb on a DG.
  • Add a push reversal for scale degree 4 of the 'middle' row (F on a GC, C on a DG)
  • All notes are now available on the draw

Since I've been thinking about these 3 row layouts I went through the process of converting the layout to something I could easily read.
Regardless of how playable the combinations are, you're left with this (hopefully the font option works for everyone or this table is gonna look reaaal bad)
Solfa GC  DG    Heim 1      Heim 2
                Press Draw  Press Draw
La    A   E     x     x     x     x
Sib   Bb  F           x           x
Si    B   F#    x     x     x     x
Do    C   G     x     x     x     x
Do#   C#  G#          x           x
Re    D   A     x     x     x     x
Mib   Eb  Bb    x           x     x
Mi    E   B     x     x     x     x
Fa    F   C           x     x     x
Fa#   F#  C#          x           x
Sol   G   D     x     x     x     x
Sol#  G#  D#    x     x     x     x


So, Heim 2, you're chromatic on the draw, every note is there (4 note cycle, 3 columns, no repeats = 12), you can form any chord / you can play any notes together, if your hand can do it, which is not true of Heim 1 (4 note cycle, 3 columns, 1 repeat = 11). I guess you might wanna think about, probably, which push notes you don't want as options. Maybe F#, Eb and Bb aren't the choices you want, idk, but, you gotta pick 3, based on how useful they are to the keys you might wanna play in - someone made the choice that those would be those 3 notes.

If you body viscerally were to reject the dutch reversal at some point in the future, that would compromise matters, somewhat.


Not that it matters but the diatonic/non darwin basses would appear to be set up as 3rdless chords, with the 3rd row being all fundamentals (obviously these are G/C basses)
C G  F F  D C
c g  f f  F#F#
G D  E A  C#C#
g d  e a  A E
G#B  EbBb BbEb
g#b  ebb B G#
Logged

-Y-

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
  • Handry 18 (G/C), Mélodie (D), Club IIb (A/D)
    • a database of 400 or more melodeons here
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2020, 09:14:47 PM »

I agree with what Gena said : having the reversal on the middle row allows to have a similar pattern on each rows : the same 3 notes on the push, the same four notes on the pull, for each row.
With that type of layout, you have all the notes on the pull, and it's up to you to chose 3 among the 6 remaining notes on the push for the 3rd row.
All that, bearing in mind that any missing note for a right-hand chord will be available to you... on the left-hand side, seeing that you're going for the Darwin layout.

Regarding the effect having the reversal on the middle row: it really depends on your playing style. I guess that if you go for 24 unisonoric basses, you won't really miss the symmetry of the 2 first rows. It also depends a lot on your habits. For me, even with the cost of re-learning some fingerings, I found it had its merits, if only for having smoother g-a sequences on the draw.

Also, it works great with 2+2 accordions.

playandteach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3521
  • Currently a music teacher in a high school.
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2020, 11:08:14 PM »

David, just let me know if you want to pursue a loan, if yes, then we can email each other. I always attempt to look after instruments on loan - I've had similar help in the past. I'm sure you'd be the same. Max loan time would be a couple of months, as I might see myself playing again by then.
Pete
Logged
Serafini R2D2 GC, Serafini GC accs 18 bass

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2020, 09:53:07 AM »

Common theme then. The pull D (DG) or G (G/C) is the one you really need, indeed that’s the heart of club system 🤔

I think it’s because a standard 2 row has a near complete D scale on pull already. I filed both my outer C# row Cs to D, and to start with would dab in the low octave D from left. This was on an Oakwood, now with another loving owner 🙂

That opens up full G and D scale, and of course their modes notably Am, Bm and Em. I personally use the pull Ds a lot when chording on Rt.  eg EGBpullD … Em7.

My next attack was to note that pull F# was duplicated on G,C# rows. The latter became pull F, again mentioned above. Now I had complete C scale on pull, modes Dm and Am, Dm7 thanks to that pull D 😀 (Am7 is there already on any DG). Again massive use as C bass is unisonoric left end 🙂

Any accs row has to be logical, and mine starting as C# was already as different as possible from D (semitone away) or G (tritone). All I’d done was to repurpose 2 notes duplicated on G row.

The accs row also has to suit your music, for me that’s modal stuff, and blues (I can flatten any D row note “at will”).

François likes Balkan music, commonly played on modes of harmonic minor, with some truly cool chords! Long time since 8 played a Heim, but will look at his layouts to see if there’s been a similar journey, whatever.

Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2020, 10:14:48 AM »

Quick plug for Melodeon Explorer https://chrisryall.net/chords/

Several layouts are there as presets (I believe “Flanders, le Tron”) is a Heim variant? Rather than file the reeds you can change the note in the edit window and press [?] to check syntax or [!!] to “rebuild”.

The push and pull layouts are completely separated as it is for chord and scale exploration, rather than waxing in reeds 😉.

As an example, 2C# in … the pull row tunes that pull note to C# middle octave. Octave numbers change on A I’m afraid. It was a quick fix for the notes I’d sampled 😉

Choose your a tonic, then scale or chord type in the control area … and you can see where its notes lie in your layout, and look at completeness. (The notes play) 😇
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 10:18:40 AM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2020, 11:39:58 AM »

Thanks for the replies.
I've been busy drawing diagrams, marking the systems out on manuscript paper, and generally pondering. Both systems give me the Dutch reversals in effect, Heim1 on the helper row, Heim2 on a main row. Heim2 also gives me a bonus reversed fourth degree of the middle row and Heim1 has no low C# (D/G's - G#). Don't know if I'd miss that eventually.

I'll have a look at Chris's Melodeon Explorer and see if that gives me any more insights.

I'm going to trial new fingerings on the Hohner test-bed that I Dutch reversed a few days ago. I've stuck small squares of Guzheng finger-pick fixing tape on the upper octave buttons that would be reversed in Heim2 (as realised, the same as a fully Dutch reversed box) to remind me to avoid button 8 when pushing and 9 when pulling. I should be able to transfer these fingerings between my standard 21+2 Sérafini and the Hohner 21+4, and also get a feeling for the reversed 5th button on the Hohner. I don't need Guzheng pick tape on that button because it's hashed from when it marked the Gleichton in a previous life. As mentioned, some tunes won't need any adjustment.

... and all this was sparked primarily by the desire to have a Darwin.

Any more comments are be greatly appreciated, thanks.  (:)
Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56

Chris Ryall

  • "doc 3-row"
  • French Interpreter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10171
  • Wirral UK
    • Chris Ryall
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2020, 01:18:14 PM »

C# is the killer note many GCaccs layouts for some reason, and the equivalent G#=Ab note was the one note missing on pull when I accidentalised my Oakwood’s C# row.

You need it for the B locrian scale, and half diminished chord when playing in inner main row minor iiVI’s. But the other notes are magically there on push too

My 11/12/11 equivalent F#GC layout gained a pull C# head end, but frankly I get by using the push note, a bit of bellows rock etc. The pull is rarely used.

Basically there isn’t room on an accs row for the 4 missing main row notes, and a pull G, without breaking the layout’s symmetry. Took me a while to master Cm play on my DG (equiv. fir you Fm) but eventually I got these key 6+7 intervals fluid  “thinking bellows”. It works because my Ab/Bb are on same button … and so are the push/pull Cs on left 😉 


So ability to modulate major/minor may be a parameter for you. In that respect go for 1+5 “thirds out” chords. A stop can do that but you get more chords for your £ if it’s hard wired.  It also really opens up cross fingered LH chording. Only the m7 works with 3rds in. For majors the 3 becomes a #5 interval when you change bass. With no 3rds you get large numbers of Maj7s too 😀 I note statement on your OP, but the 3rds issue applies to any left end.

Last thing … the more you get used to melodeon, the more you will express some chords on the “melody end” it becomes a single instrument. The default left only offers simple triads
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 01:23:08 PM by Chris Ryall »
Logged
  _       _    _      _ 

David A Hill

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: Help! Heim 1 vs Heim 2... with a twist of Darwinism. :)
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2020, 08:29:01 PM »

Thanks, Chris.

My Sérafini is 1+5 on the left hand and I started using a little cross-chording early doors when I had my first diato box. It was pressed wood from Theo with thirds in the chords. I was learning a minor tune (aeolian mode) and needed a minor on the subdominant so I used cross chording to get the Dm7. I still put the m3rd in when the D is minor. I prefer the sound on that chord to the D5. I think the voice leading is nicer. I'll sometimes cross to get Em7 too - depends on the sound in the particular tune. I've very occasionally used a few others, especially the major 7ths, so I understand what you're saying. Right hand chords are yet to be studied in detail. I'm just about to start learning a few for a tune.

The Darwin is the same as the R2D2. It has 1+5 - just more of them. :) It also has the added bonus of being able to remove the 5 leaving single fundementals in the left-hand's treble. :) Hours of fun... and potential befuddlement, at least for a while.

.......................................................................

Thanks, Pete,

I had a brainwave (maybe). Details in PM.  (:)


Logged
Sérafini R2D2, 21+2 in G/C.

The road is long. There is no destination. Enjoy the journey. https://www.facebook.com/david.a.hill.56
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal