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[ACE]

Groups of eight, 3 metres apart are being thought about for sessions band rehearsals. A few friends, a few bottles and a village hall, perfect.

[Graham Spencer]

Looking at the arrangements being put in place in the pubs round here (Hull) it is not even as simple as being a socially distanced group. Tables and chairs (either 4 or 6 to a table) are being precisely placed in measured places and must not be moved, many are instituting booking systems and no more than two hours in the pub, quite a few are saying you must order food.

Steve

Doesn't directly affect me, as I no longer live in the UK, but talking to a friend in Birmingham a day or two ago the pre-booked two-hour slot seems to be happening there too. Don't know if food is compulsory, though.  From outside the country I can foresee all kinds of chaos and confusion tomorrow........

Graham

[Peadar]

It's all completely clear ! However I'm not certain what the rule would be for a meeting straddling the England/Wales border ! Any views, Rees Wesson ?

J

Obviously not directed at me....but my cousin in Denbighshire (retired district nurse) tells me that there has been a recent outbreak in Wrecsam, which for my money is pretty much on the Border.

Up around the Solway Firth there is a lockdown extension resulting from a cross border cluster.

Across the Highlands, from Badenoch to Skye, people are looking nervously at the signs of holiday homes being serviced and a few camper vans have already been seen jumping the gun.

If in doubt don't play out.

[Tone Dumb Greg]

It's all completely clear ! However I'm not certain what the rule would be for a meeting straddling the England/Wales border ! Any views, Rees Wesson ?

J

...and the actual rules are?
After looking at the guidelines again, they don't seem all that clear to me.

[Thrupenny Bit]

I think Steve's  right.
Wherever there is a festival there seems to be people wishing to stop it. Anything such as Steve describes is gristle to their mill.
Enjoy the beach Theo!

[Julian S]

It's all completely clear ! However I'm not certain what the rule would be for a meeting straddling the England/Wales border ! Any views, Rees Wesson ?

J

...and the actual rules are?
After looking at the guidelines again, they don't seem all that clear to me.

No - not clear to me either - just couldn't decide on a suitable emoji representing my total confusion. But I'm not even certain whether I'll risk the pub for a pint on my impending birthday - never mind a session anytime soon. And as for Whitby - love the place but hate the crowds. When I was young I really liked off season there !
Better times next year - please !

J

[Graham Spencer]

It's all completely clear ! However I'm not certain what the rule would be for a meeting straddling the England/Wales border ! Any views, Rees Wesson ?

J

...and the actual rules are?
After looking at the guidelines again, they don't seem all that clear to me.

No - not clear to me either - just couldn't decide on a suitable emoji representing my total confusion. But I'm not even certain whether I'll risk the pub for a pint on my impending birthday - never mind a session anytime soon. And as for Whitby - love the place but hate the crowds. When I was young I really liked off season there !
Better times next year - please !

To be honest, it seems to me that that's been part of the problem from the off with the UK's handling of Covid-19; there haven't been any clear rules, only "guidelines", and nothing is actually enforceable.  In a number of European countries (including here in Cyprus) the rules were clear from day 1, and enforceable by law, with fines ranging from 300 euros to 1000 euros for violations. 

[AnnC]

  I agree with Steve completely 
  Much as Whitby needs the tourist trade the thought of the crowds of people, from all over the country, we usually see thronging the streets and filling pubs during Folk Week is a cause for concern.
 Unless a small miracle happens and an effective vaccine can be developed, produced and administered to the entire population in the next few weeks then the risk of someone unintentionally bringing the virus to Whitby and passing it on to locals and visitors to take back home with them must be a worry.
 Sessions in pubs draw people in, other musicians and people wanting to sit with a pint and enjoy the music which would make life difficult for the bar staff trying to keep everyone safe, especially if some of the audience are in a "relaxed state through drink", not many of Whitby's pubs have much space to juggle with.
 People playing also tend not to drink a lot so the takings over the bar would be affected if some of the reduced seating available for customers was occupied. Holding sessions in the open air sounds lovely but in public spaces would also be problematic as music attracts people and stewards would be needed to keep order and limit numbers. If the regulations are relaxed before August I might be tempted to play at an outside session but I'd need to be sure it wasn't going to be gatecrashed by tipsy holiday makers. ( see the pictures on TV of the poor police trying to deal with crowds at street parties )
 Theo's plan is best  if you're coming to Whitby relax, enjoy time on the beach with family, stroll through the park and keep safe 👍

[Bob Ellis]

I agree with Steve and Ann about the need to keep safe and to err on the side of caution. We already have an influx of visitors to Hawes this weekend, most of whom are flouting the social distancing regulations, so I know what can happen!

All I was saying was that several musicians (I doubt whether it will be a large number) have retained the accommodation bookings they made for Whitby Festival and, if it is safe and legal to do so by then, it might be possible for a few of us to meet up for the odd session, probably at an outdoor venue. However, if it doesn't seem safe, it won't happen.

[AnnC]

......... if it is safe and legal to do so by then, it might be possible for a few of us to meet up for the odd session, probably at an outdoor venue. However, if it doesn't seem safe, it won't happen.

 Half the problem is the uncertainty about what the regulations and recommendations will be by then  it makes it almost impossible to plan anything.
 However during what would have been Folk Week I shall keep my eyes peeled for any fellow Melnetters strolling around the town and will wave, say hello and stop for a chat ( at a safe distance  ) .... it's the talking to everyone I only see once a year when they come to the festival and catching up with all their news that I'll miss as much as the music.

[Bob Ellis]

I would also miss chatting to people who have become friends even though I only see them once a year at Whitby, so I hope I can meet up with a few such people. I am also looking forward to being able to enjoy strolling on the beach and around town without the usual mad scramble to get to my next workshop, session, or whatever.

It will be the first proper outing for our new motorhome (now not so new!) that we bought shortly before lockdown, so we'll be enjoying (?) learning how everything works and solving the inevitable teething problems.

We'll be on the Sandfield House Farm Caravan Park just outside Whitby on the road to Sandsend, if anybody feels like dropping round for a socially distanced chat and perhaps a tune or two.

[Chris Ryall]

There is very limited “science” in banning people playing instruments in a bar. It is basically the same as having a pint.

SONG, or even mixed sessions however are a very BAD idea. We were told at World Tuberculosis Day in March that three large outbreaks had been traced to choirs, and there have been several reports of same for Covid in USA.

Basically taking that deep breath in … and belting out a loud chorus is a perfect way to create aerosols. I told this to my Liverpool Belvedere session on March 12 and … it hasn’t met since. So far all remain well. 😀 We beat Her Majesty’s Government to what seemed a rather obvious  conclusion by over a month; they seem to have all caught the virus! 🙄

Wheezy old melodeons are probably very low risk, other than attracting in droves of spectators. 😉   I don’t know what happens with wind blown instruments, and I wouldn’t like to experiment

[Steve_freereeder]

...Wheezy old melodeons are probably very low risk, other than attracting in droves of spectators. 😉   I don’t know what happens with wind blown instruments, and I wouldn’t like to experiment

I think that playing a flute with its strong, transverse airstream across the embouchure hole would be especially good at creating a wide-ranging aerosol, almost as 'efficient' as singing. Somewhere on-line, I seem to recall a schlieren photography video of a flute being played, which showed this, but a quick google search has failed to discover it.

When I first started learning to play the flute, my teacher placed a lit candle a few feet away on a stand at face level. While playing a sound from the flute, I had to cause the candle to blow out, or at least make the flame wobble markedly.

I think that other wind instruments where the airstream is directed down through the body of the instrument will not generate anything like as much room-filling aerosols, although the risks remain. Also there is the problem of potentially infectious saliva/condensation dripping on to the floor or being emptied out of instruments (particularly brass instruments). This paper makes a broad scale assessment of that, also risks from contaminated reeds, swabs and pull-throughs.

Edit:
There are some interesting schlieren videos of instrument airstreams on this website, although it seems mainly concerned with organ pipes (my French is not that good). There's even a video of what happenes when two people shake hands!

[CAB]

Wind instruments would certainly seem to pose a greater risk and I for one don't plan on trying it.  I've already refused an invite to rejoin a recorder consort, even in someone's garden.
As for flute, with a good steep Irish-style embouchure, far more of the air goes into the flute so a lot less is being fanned out directly.  I've done the candle test too.  The flame is far less disturbed by a typical Sligo player.  Still not planning on risking it though.
Interesting links Steve.

[Thrupenny Bit]

As an aside:
I had a chat with friends in the village expecting family for a break after lockdown eases. They normally eat out when family visits.
They have concluded that all the pubs where they would go for meals and a post walk pint currently are not opening yet.
Consequently you might find your favourite session pub a few miles away is still closed no matter what the restrictions allow.
Q

[Chris Ryall]

As I said above, very little science!

sneezes apart,  the guy in World Tb  Day said that the aerosols mainly come from our lungs. Hence issue with song and conceivably with blown instruments. He said the best way to diagnose was to swab the mask! So they do filter something …

The next stage is propagation, conceivably helped by fiddling but we won’t get covid from rosin 😉 Fans in a bar seem a very bad idea, and aircon has its own issues, notably the legionella bug.

Fans and local exhaust are the classic occupational health solution to threats in the air. So don’t linger outside a crowded pub. But the main threat, sadly is people.

Lot’s on the media as I tap this in. Seems WHO now recommend masks, which won’t help them with Mr T 🤔  Stay safe. I’m still “out” wrt sessions, looking for a pint outside, hopefully

[Thrupenny Bit]

I had a Zoom session on monday, and I think one or two might waft through Sidmouth during what would have been the folk week 'just in case someone is playing'.
One friend has accommodation booked so will take it as a short holiday, but I expect her whistle will find it's way into her bag.

I was reflecting on things last night. The local news telling me some local theatres had bagged large sums from the Gov't to survive, others sadly nothing.
Nationally, a big beating of breasts and wailing because ' our culture will be lost....'
Yet the traditional cultures, music, song and dance are utterly left out on a limb helplessly trailing around places just in case something might happen....
With our traditions, 'twas ever thus I'm afraid 

[Nigel.H]

I don't know whether Sidmouth took advantage of the Festival being 'off' to engage in a substantial infrastructure job on The Ham or whether it is being done on a relaxed timescale as there is no Festival, but if the footbridge build was planned and is on time, I doubt The Ham would have been fit for the Festival in a couple of weeks time.

[Thrupenny Bit]

I haven't been down to the Ham but friends have.
I think the lock-down halted the work, and once the festival had  been called off there was no rush.
Possibly..... but it wouldn't surprise me to have learnt the Ham wasnt ready and the festival would have had to work around it!
Q

[Geoff P.]

Half a dozen local ukelele players were playing outside a cafe in Shrewsbury this afternoon. Great to see live music again. Hope melnetters do the same.