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Change in music at the end of the C18?
Peadar:
--- Quote from: Winston Smith on July 16, 2020, 07:46:09 PM ---Please excuse my complete ignorance, but about these "flattened" this and "flattened" that which I often come across in Melnet discussions. That means that tunes in this mode (or whichever tune needs these flattened thirds, fifths, sevenths or whatever) cannot be played on ordinary melodeons which are tuned to equal temperament, yes? Unless, that is, there is some mechanism for flattening notes on the fly, so to speak?
--- End quote ---
Simple guide to modes
Ionian: Do re mi fa so la ti do
Dorian: Re mi fa so la ti do re
Phrygian: Mi fa so la ti do re mi
Lydian: Fa so la ti do re mi fa
Mixolodian: So la ti do re mi fa so
Aeolian: La ti do re mi fa so la
Locrian: Ti do re mi fa so la ti
......which brings us back to Do!:
The notes for " Twinkle twinkle little star" (first line) -Ionian (the scale as we know it normally) Do Do so so la la so: fa fa mi mi re re Do:
To get the tune in locrian take everything down a note
Ti Ti fa fa so so fa: mi mi re re do do Ti:
The tune is still unmistakeably "Twinkle twinkle" but sounds very different.
Composers generally avoid Locrian because the fifth is not perfect in comparison with all the other modes...pull second and fourth button together (Ti & fa) and you'll see what I mean.
Give it a try!
CAB:
--- Quote from: Winston Smith on July 16, 2020, 07:46:09 PM ---Please excuse my complete ignorance, but about these "flattened" this and "flattened" that which I often come across in Melnet discussions. That means that tunes in this mode (or whichever tune needs these flattened thirds, fifths, sevenths or whatever) cannot be played on ordinary melodeons which are tuned to equal temperament, yes? Unless, that is, there is some mechanism for flattening notes on the fly, so to speak?
--- End quote ---
Greg has a good point but locrian is pretty obscure. As he says, the other modes have a perfect 5th (7 semitones from the tonic or home note).
Taking the more commonly used modes, it may be more useful to think of major and minor 3rds and 7ths rather than flattened ones.
If you're in A, the note of C is 3 semitones up from A. That's a minor 3rd. Hence an A minor chord = A + C + E
The note C# is 4 semitones from A. That's a major 3rd. Hence an A major chord = A + C# + E
Still in A, G is 10 semitones up - a minor 7th; while G# is 11 semitones up - a major 7th.
The mixolydian mode has a major 3rd and a minor 7th: A B C# D E F# G A. The reason people talk about a flattened 7th is because they are comparing it with the major scale (or ionian mode): A B C# D E F# G# A.
D mixolydian is D E F# G A B C D
So if you want to play a tune in D mixolydian on a DG melodeon, snatch a C from the G row instead of using the C# from the D row.
Peadar's way of looking at it is really helpful even if you don't do tonic solfa. Same sequence of notes but starting in a different place.
Chris Ryall:
modal stuff moved to modal thread as per Hugh below (:)
Hugh Taylor:
Thanks to all the contributors to this thread.
I should have realised in my original query that when I mentioned modality it would open up a can of worms. I should have said something like 'quirkiness' instead. Most of the contributions seem to have been about the various modes, and its probably a good thing that a new thread has been started under 'Tunes'. Perhaps we should draw a line under mode discussion on this thread, and try and restrict it to my original query?
The two main good things to come out of the thread have both been thanks to Steve. The Tune Conference on Oct 10/11, and the dissertation by Celia Pendlebury that I found interesting. Celia makes the point in a number of places that modal changes were not uncommon, possibly due to things like instrument restrictions, transcription errors, or the practice of the day.
More research needed!
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