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Author Topic: Two melodeons or one  (Read 3418 times)

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Peter Savage

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2020, 06:56:13 AM »

So I am inclined to have two boxes. What would be the best box to add; a G/C or a C/F  or something else. It seems a 2 row plus 2 accidentals and 8 bases would serve quite well.

Looking at this question specifically, I would say the obvious choice is a C/F as your D/G repertoire would all work well on this.  You can treat a C/F box as a simple "transposing machine", i.e. your current repertoire 1 tone down.

G/C is a bit more of a challenge as it's generally played predominantly in the higher octave and much of your current D/G repertoire may sound rather low if you play in the same way as you do on a D/G box.  You can re-learn tunes higher up of course, but I don't know if this is what you are looking for.

Bb/Eb is an interesting option that sits somewhere in between, and I know I am not alone in enjoying playing in these keys.  Much of the D/G repertoire works nicely still, and it has the advantage of tunes in the higher octave not sounding "squeaky" with MM reeds.

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2020, 09:09:47 AM »

I remember chatting to Microbot and he made a valid point about CF.
Adding a CF box to your DG box means that with the respective relative minor keys you have most of the regularly used keys.
DG = Em + Bm
CF = Am + Dm

Something to consider..... and it is a 'transposing machine's as Peter has just said.
I.e. using the same fingering from a DG on a CF transposes that tune to the new key.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Steve C.

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2020, 12:50:29 PM »

Greg and Peter have written my post for me.
C/F plays just like a D/G only in a (slightly) more pleasing range.
Two Hohners (a D/G and and C/F) nicely fixed up don't cost hardly anything.  (also, highly recommend C/F "F-scale layout)
Next I think one will want an A/D....
You need real reeds in the house, even if you have the "melodeon capo".
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Howard Jones

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2020, 02:05:03 PM »

It depends on your reasons for wanting other keys.  For example, you say you are interested in French music in which case a G/C would be a good choice.  However, as pointed out, it would mean learning to play in the higher octave and in a more cross-row style.  That's a challenge, but if you are serious about playing French music in the proper style it is well worth pursuing , and worth getting the appropriate instrument.  Similarly, if you want to play like Andy Cutting then get a similar box to the ones he uses.

However if you  are less concerned about being 'authentic', then unless you are playing with others and need to be in particular keys there is no need to play in the keys a tune is written in, they can easily be transposed to your D/G. 

hickory-wind

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2020, 03:02:06 PM »

Great discussion and advice.  Just right.  My ambition would be able to play just one tune with similar proficiency and feeling as Martin Ellison; the 10,000 hours would be worth it.

A visit to Scott's place again is in the offing. Once infected MAD I suspect is not curable, but does seem treatable with group therapy.

Thanks all

Yusuf- Truly no pressure for you to buy from me. If I can help you determine what you want and you find it elsewhere- no worries. You will most likely come back when MAD strikes again. I'm lucky that no vaccine has been developed yet...

I'm happy for any member here to visit and tour the shop. I've been told I have more used button accordions than any other shop in North America- a 'dubious distinction' for sure but it makes BBB a good location for trying different boxes out.

Scott
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Ellison

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2020, 09:41:19 AM »

Hello
I'm just popping in to say thank you to those on this thread who have made very generous comments about my playing. I really take them to heart. Thank you.

I'd also add that I agree about bigger "better" boxes don't necessarily make you a more accomplished player. I've often seen someone playing a larger, heavier box like a Castagnari Mory or other equivalent box and seen how the bellows changes have been laboured and sluggish when playing simple up and down the rows music. A smaller, lighter box makes this so much easier and allows for more feeling, more input from your body. In short, more control. As always there are laudable exceptions to this.

Even the seemingly logical step up from a 2 row, 8 bass to a 2.5 row, 12 bass necessitates a change in style and approach in most cases. I'm not suggesting that small=good and large=bad because it's horses for courses and different beasts. I love the extra chordal and melodic potential on a larger box but I almost always gravitate back to my Bouebe or Pokerwork when I want to imbue some feeling and passion into tunes.

Merely my opinion based on my own preferences.

Martin
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2020, 11:04:51 AM »

Hi Martin,
Glad you've popped in!
It is good to know your thoughts on  2row 8 bass against 2.5 row 12 bass boxes. I've often wondered.
Having recently gone back to look at a couple of the tunes you play I am discovering the feeling that you can get into the tunes from the 2r8b box. It has taken a while for me to realise some of the potential of the straightforward melodeon.

As friends on here know have often been tempted to move along to a bigger box but something in my head always stops me. The more I learn about the 2r8b it seems the less I know!
Cheers.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2020, 12:01:02 PM »

I have never felt the need for a 2.5 or 3 row ''DG'' box, perhaps becase I also play BC and BCC#.

however, what I do find very useful is  a 3 voice DG mml, particularly for ceilidh band work. Yes it is heavier than  a 2 voice but not that much heavier!

for morris I think there is nothing better than a hohner pokerwork  and although I don't play for morris now I still have  my faithful old 'morris box'

I have only relatively recently taken up the one row 4 stop G ( hohner) and the more I play it the more I can play on it  and sod the lack of accidentals  -  Faking or otherwise taking the mind of them is a fascinating art.   There is a theory that if the listener knows the tune he will hear the accidentals where expected even if they are not there. There are of course many tunes that don't have accidentals  or that have versions with and without the odd accidental.

george
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BobM

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2020, 12:43:28 PM »

I started playing on a G/C in April 2020 aged 68, and my choice of box key was made by searching on YouTube for examples of music in all of the main tunings. But my choice of G/C was not to play French music alone, but because I like its lower range. Knowing what I know now, it's arguable that a D/G with a 4th row start would have made it easier for me to get going via this forum. But it is what it is, and so far, the TOTM's since I started all seem playable, and I like the cross row articulations as well. I may get another box in the future but it'll likely be a G/C 8 bass.

Bob.

PS, "playable" is not "performable", not yet anyway..

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Winston Smith

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2020, 01:09:20 PM »

 "I like its lower range."

Bob, I cannot really be doing with the squeakiness of a normal D/G either. One solution is to get your hands on a three voice (LMM) which makes a world of difference, or (as I've done twice now) have someone re-tune a D/G to bandoneon tuning (LM). Both examples are so much easier on the ear!
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BobM

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2020, 01:47:43 PM »

"I like its lower range."

Bob, I cannot really be doing with the squeakiness of a normal D/G either. One solution is to get your hands on a three voice (LMM) which makes a world of difference, or (as I've done twice now) have someone re-tune a D/G to bandoneon tuning (LM). Both examples are so much easier on the ear!

I happy with my G/C choice now, and even though some of the TOTM's have brought about some serious head scratching, the biggest issue for me has been around bellows travel and the air button use. This may in part be due to my not transposing the song but playing it to the written key, and chords.
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Ellison

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2020, 01:56:49 PM »

I too get frustrated with the pitch of a DG. My CF is a little better. However, I have a BbEb on order from Mike Rowbotham as we speak. Not only am I looking forward to the lower pitch but it also has the low Eb scale, which has been called various things but it's something I devised independently on a box I had some years ago.

I have a whole list of tunes waiting to try out on the new box (a Pokerwork) and tunes which will utilise the low scale. I've purposely not attempted these tunes on my normal layout so as not to let muscle memory take over - it's been a test of my will power not to try them out!

I'm as excited as a child on christmas eve.

Martin
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Microbot

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2020, 03:24:26 PM »

Hi Martin,

... Ha !!

So, no pressure then!!  (:)

Mike

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Ellison

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2020, 04:09:15 PM »


So, no pressure then!!  (:)


Not at all . . . okay, just a bit  :D
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BobM

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2020, 10:21:55 AM »

Its lower range may not suit some music, but I've just realised that on my G/C that it's possible to play "Sailing By", the Radio 4 close down theme. It's all doable on both sides in C, apart from one melody G sharp which is easy to substitute. It sits well in the lower register as well.

Happy days!

Bob.

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Steve C.

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Re: Two melodeons or one
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2020, 12:57:00 PM »

Bb/Eb and A/D don't get the love they are due. IMO.
Low Eb and Low D scales are a nice on them as the Low G on the D/G (where I expect they were invented)
Maybe one mellows with age.
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