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Author Topic: Playing Position Height  (Read 2269 times)

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BobM

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Playing Position Height
« on: July 26, 2020, 09:55:28 AM »

I'm three months in now, and I'm in need of some clarification about my instrument playing position. I'm 6'2'' and with the back straps fully extended the instrument doesn't sit easily in my lap, and when I extend the strap so that it looks like it's in the "classic" playing position I don't find it that comfortable either. I like the instrument and bellows to be away from my legs.
So, what am I missing by carrying on as I am, if anything, and why is the lower position almost universal? Am I missing something?

Bob.
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Henry Piper

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2020, 11:04:59 AM »

Surely there can be no ideal playing height, what is comfortable for one person may not be so for another, you need to keep trying different adjustments until you find one that is comfortable for you !!.
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From Ottery St Mary Devon. Currently Playing Dino Baffetti BP2 in D/G, Hohner Student 1 P.A conversion  in D/G,  Hohner 3515 Pre-Pokerwork in A/D,   2 row "Beaver Brand" in Bb/Eb, Hohner Pre- Erica in G/C .  Single row permanent 4 voice, 4 bass in C from old Hohner single row and bits of a cheap Cajun box !!,

Peadar

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2020, 11:45:35 AM »

If you use 2 straps,one over each shoulder then the instrument is always suspended from your shoulders at he same height relative to your elbow, whether you are sitting or standing.
Ergonomically a strap lemgth that puts the centre of keyboard level with your elbow may be optimal.

What you sit on (if you mainly play sitting down) will also affect your deportment and comfort/discomfort.


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BobM

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2020, 12:27:47 PM »

If you use 2 straps,one over each shoulder then the instrument is always suspended from your shoulders at he same height relative to your elbow, whether you are sitting or standing.
Ergonomically a strap lemgth that puts the centre of keyboard level with your elbow may be optimal.

What you sit on (if you mainly play sitting down) will also affect your deportment and comfort/discomfort.

I am using two straps, and mainly sit a folding piano stool, plus I can play standing with no discomfort. I wonder though, if having the bellows over/on the leg may help with smoother bellow reversals?..
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2020, 02:36:49 PM »

I practice at home on a stool with adjustable telescopic legs set at a comfortable for me height. As a 'less than 6'2"' person, the length of my back sat down means my box rests on my leg and the straps adjusted accordingly.

I cross my legs and rest the treble end on (generally) my right thigh. I'll change legs  over my practice session, only resting the treble end and definitely not the bellows. I make sure that at whatever position, the bottom of the bellows moves freely and doesn't touch and rub against my leg.

In the days when we could go out to a club session, I would find the chairs often a touch lower. This sometimes meant my bass strap sliding off my shoulder. It just shows that the height of your chair or stool can affect your comfort and playing position.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

george garside

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2020, 03:05:15 PM »

if using 2 shoulder straps  the relationship of the box  to the head and shoulders remains exactly the same whether standing or sitting. How close it is to the knees when ssitting depends  entirely on the 'length' of the player and the hight of ones stool (non clinical)!

a good starting point for strap adjustment is to have the right strap slightly longer than the left so the keybord is roughly directly under the chin and the right elbow I relatively closeto the body rather than waving in the wind. 
the top of the right side of the box when looking straight ahead  should be approx. a stretched handswidth bellow the chin.


all of course subject to slight trial and ebeing rror adjustments to suit individual anatomy.

If , for whatever reason, you prefer playing with a single shoulder strap none of the above applies!

I use this setting on all my boxes  from 2 row 8 bass to 3 row 96 bass, the only exeption being my 1 row 4 stopper which I only play seated using just the thumbstrap.

george



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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2020, 04:59:09 PM »

I agree about position George.
It's not that I'm a short @rse just that my eyes are closer to the ground than some  ::)
Consequently I find that the box rests on my thigh when sitting, so it is slightly higher up my chest than when standing. The weight is resting partly on the thigh rather than totally supported by my shoulder straps.
If I adjusted the straps to totally take the weight and not rest it on my thigh then it would be too far up my chest for comfort, but we are all different shapes and prefer different positions in which to hold and play our boxes.
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Rob2Hook

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2020, 05:39:39 PM »

I agree about position George.
It's not that I'm a short @rse just that my eyes are closer to the ground than some  ::)
Consequently I find that the box rests on my thigh when sitting, so it is slightly higher up my chest than when standing. The weight is resting partly on the thigh rather than totally supported by my shoulder straps.
If I adjusted the straps to totally take the weight and not rest it on my thigh then it would be too far up my chest for comfort, but we are all different shapes and prefer different positions in which to hold and play our boxes.
Q
Yeah well, I  finally got past denial... I am a shortar5e and also find the box rides right up until it jams under my chin.  I can either try to "sit up straight" as my mum used to advocate or slide my bum forward until the box can slide down my lap a bit, but as you say the shoulder straps are no longer serving a useful purpose and often slip down into straitjacket position.  All can be prevented by use of a backstrap, but they're so difficult to get into or out of that you end up still wearing the whole rig at the bar - less than ideal.

My ideal height is roughly as advised, a hands span beneath the chin with two straps though with a single strap it tends toward the gunslinger rock guitarist - just above the knees.  The limits depend on the style you're playing.  Anything clever needs to be fairly high up but not too high for a comfortable wrist position so it depends on your body shape and length of arm.  Border morris though - that's the gunslinger style.

Rob.
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george garside

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2020, 06:21:36 PM »

I   didn't mention a backstrap  as  its not really needed for eg session playing  where nipping to the bar or for a quick pee between tunes is the order of the day or for solo playing/practicing at home etc etc.

However  when playing for dancing eg ceilidh or morris I use a backstrap as an involuntary halt to put strap back on shoulder or whatever  needs to be avoided at all costs.  In such circumstances  its easy to get somebody else  to securely attach the backstrap

george

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SHTUM

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2020, 07:58:21 PM »

I recently made a backstrap out of a luggage strap - not because I'm mean, -  >:(but all the straps I have are fixed in the one position, and you cant get out without help.  Anyway I decided to experiment with the position ( of straps) and for me the best position was just behind the back of my neck.  I can easily unclip them or tilt the head forward and slip the strap over my head - freee!
 Just thought I,d say - here's a pic.          John
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2020, 09:45:28 PM »

...for me the best position was just behind the back of my neck.  I can easily unclip them or tilt the head forward and slip the strap over my head - freee!...

Doing the straps up first and putting them on and off over my head works a treat for me. Been doing it  for about 18 months now. Don't know why I didn't always do it that way.
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Greg Smith
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ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

BobM

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2020, 10:20:44 PM »

It seems that I have a good playing position for me then, and as I only get a little left shoulder strap slippage once in a while, I may check out a back strap in the future.

Onwards and Upwards..

Bob.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 09:06:56 AM by BobM »
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SHTUM

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2020, 10:49:41 PM »

as I only get a little left shoulder strap slippage once in a while,

Onwards and Upwards..

Bob.
Or - get a shirt with epaulettes and button your straps in!  (:)
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Peadar

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2020, 11:00:43 PM »

I'm three months in now, and I'm in need of some clarification about my instrument playing position. I'm 6'2'' and with the back straps fully extended the instrument doesn't sit easily in my lap, and when I extend the strap so that it looks like it's in the "classic" playing position I don't find it that comfortable either. I like the instrument and bellows to be away from my legs.
So, what am I missing by carrying on as I am, if anything, and why is the lower position almost universal? Am I missing something?

Bob.
If you use 2 straps,one over each shoulder then the instrument is always suspended from your shoulders at he same height relative to your elbow, whether you are sitting or standing.
Ergonomically a strap lemgth that puts the centre of keyboard level with your elbow may be optimal.

What you sit on (if you mainly play sitting down) will also affect your deportment and comfort/discomfort.

"I am using two straps, and mainly sit a folding piano stool, plus I can play standing with no discomfort. I wonder though, if having the bellows over/on the leg may help with smoother bellow reversals?.."

Having the bellows on the leg is not generally seen as a good idea - as it results in the bellows tpe wearing relatively rapidly. the aim of whatever way you hold the yoke is to keep the right hand cabinet still and do all the bellows work with the left hand.

Resting the Right Hand cabinet on the knee makes it less lable to yaw (turn on a vertical axis) as the bellows change direction - this is a particular problem for anyone who uses two straps with a 1 row -  stability with two straps is based on the straps holding the melodeon agaainst the player's chest.  The 1 row casings are narrower than the two row so less resistant to turning.

This is one of the reasons for the relative popularity of the thumbstrap with 1 rows - you can hold the instrument down onto the leg.

If using a single strap over right shoulder stability is acheived by pushing against the keyboard edge with the right thumb, keeping the strap in tension - and the melodeon Right hand case may well be on the knee. Many players who use two straps standing will put both straps over  right shoulder when sitting down- so the arrangement works as though a single strap.

What do I do?

2 straps with modern 2 rows.
1 strap with modern 1 rows - if standing the box slopes don to the right
Whatever appears to have been originally fitted with vintage instruments- usually just a thumbstrap, and I play these seated on a dining chair, left leg crossed over right treble cabinet sitting on left thigh.

Hope this helps

P



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Rob2Hook

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2020, 11:10:19 PM »

Or - get a shirt with epaulettes and button your straps in!  (:)

It gets better and better!  Many uniform shirts have velcro on the epaulettes, so a quick departure to the loo is possible.

Rob.
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BobM

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2020, 09:14:11 AM »

M

So, what am I missing by carrying on as I am, if anything, and why is the lower position almost universal? Am I missing something?

Bob.

Just to reassure, I'm not trolling this topic but..

Bob.

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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2020, 09:51:30 AM »

However it hangs it's good practice not to let the bellows rub on your legs. It can soon wear through if you do. This applies to all makes and models, but especially Pokerwork type bellows (been there, done it, need the T-shirt).
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Greg Smith
DG/GC Pokerwork, DG 2.4 Saltarelle, pre-war CF Hohner, Hohner 1040 Vienna style, old  BbEb Hohner that needs a lot of work.

ACCORDION, n. An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin. Ambrose Bierce

george garside

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2020, 10:39:19 AM »

even when using 2 carefully adjusted shoulder straps and perhaps a back strap the potential movement of the box relative to its person  can be greatly reduced by aiming to keep the bellows as near closed as possible rather than waving them about in the wind as if trying to take off!

there are of course certain bits of certain tunes that on a 2 row box necessitate temporary extending the bellows but a swift return to 'tight bellows'  as soon as possible  allows greater precision particularly when fast ins and outs are required to change notes  and also has the benefit of reducing   stresss on the left shoulder.

george
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Lester

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2020, 10:52:03 AM »

From a contrary point of view I only ever play with a single strap. When sat down I have the strap over my elbow and the treble casework on my left leg, when stood I have the strap over my right shoulder and use the 'morris death grip' on the treble keyboard.
I'm am not a fan of being trussed up in my playing and find two straps a pain. But as they say in the internet world - Your Milage May Vary.

https://youtu.be/Jj1CtZ022rU


Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Playing Position Height
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2020, 10:53:50 AM »

The other thing to consider in box position is your fingers  wrists and arms.
Try to keep everything relaxed, no acute angles, as straight as possible but also relaxed too.
I'm reminded of a friend, a stunning player who is a one strapper and the box in a near vertical position when standing up. At one point became unable to play and numbness due to his wrist always being bent.
Keep your arms wrists and fingers reasonably straight but relaxed whatever your strappage!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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