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Author Topic: Teaching qualifications  (Read 6621 times)

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Winston Smith

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Teaching qualifications
« on: August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM »

Hi Mark, and best wishes for your success in finding students.

It's a coincidence that melodeon tutoring was among the topics of conversation at our weekly outdoor, and socially distanced, NE melodeon group. I (innocently) asked the question if anyone new whether the various melodeon tutors had any teaching qualifications.

So now, I'll ask more widely. Do our many melodeon tutors have relevant teaching qualifications?
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2020, 08:12:28 PM »

Hi Mark, and best wishes for your success in finding students.

It's a coincidence that melodeon tutoring was among the topics of conversation at our weekly outdoor, and socially distanced, NE melodeon group. I (innocently) asked the question if anyone new whether the various melodeon tutors had any teaching qualifications.

So now, I'll ask more widely. Do our many melodeon tutors have relevant teaching qualifications?

Luckily, teaching qualifications are optional. As someone with a BEd, I suspect they would not be of much help. Not as much as relevant expertise and experience, anyway.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2020, 08:44:47 PM »

I nearly started playing over 40 years ago but simply didn't know where to start so got diverted into concertina with a tutor book.
I am so pleased that now there are tutor books, tutors, workshops for all levels, slow and easy sessions, Skype and zoom to counteract distances,  Melnet!!,
People simply willing to pass on their skills to help others whether at a professional or amateur level. Professional or amateur help doesn't matter, the fact that there is help out there is the important bit.
We live in a great time to learn melodeon.
Q
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 10:38:28 PM by Thrupenny Bit »
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Theo

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 08:00:48 PM »

[[ADMIN]]

I've split this off into a new topic because it's a valid topic in it's own right and it's taking attention away from the original intention to advertise Mark Insley"s teaching services.

The original topic by Mark Insley is here. http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,25869.0.html
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Winston Smith

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 08:52:37 PM »

I'm sorry for putting you to so much trouble Theo, but it is a serious question.

I wonder just how members would feel about someone, without relevant qualifications, taking over their jobs? I expect that there are 1 or 2 teachers on here, and what would there reaction be to say; their local education authority bringing in unqualified teachers, because they were cheaper, or whatever? Or would members willingly employ unqualified car mechanics, or builders etc.?
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Kon

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2020, 09:53:14 PM »

I think the tricky question here is what are the relevant qualifications? My girlfriend is a trained teacher (biology) - not sure that would make her a good music teacher though, because the skills of classroom teaching are quite different from those for teaching music. In general, jobs which are dangerous if done wrong or paid for out of the public pocket are heavily regulated and have "qualifications" of some sort or  another (doctor, teacher, mechanic, builder spring to mind) - but private music teaching on a not-very-fashionable folk instrument is not heavily regulated, perhaps unsurprisingly. What qualification would you like to see in a teacher Winston? For me the main things would be that they can play better than me and that they're good at communicating - and patient! But none of those things require a degree necessarily.
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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2020, 10:02:42 PM »

I'd certainly avoid qualification above musicianship and experience. Once you've tried a lesson you will be well placed to decide if that person's approach and skills are what you need. You also don't necessarily want the big names as teachers, Brian Cox is an excellent motivator and communicator for physics but there are better teachers out there. On the other hand don't use 'qualifications' as an inverse snobbery to suggest that someone who has only been playing for 8 years may be inferior as a player or teacher to those with many years of playing.
Word of mouth and suck it and see are the best approaches. No one has the right to keep students in the face of new talent, but a qualification isn't the final arbiter of relevant experience either.
It's a big world with room for more, especially now. But equally no need for people to worry about losing their stable of students.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2020, 10:16:15 PM »

"What qualification would you like to see"

That's not a question which I have actively considered, as I won't ever be using a teacher. (I'm a hopeless student and consequently have to find my own way.) That is possibly why I haven't progressed very much since we met at the NE playgroup thing, on your third(?) day of first handling a box and playing like an old hand!

What qualifications do music teachers require? I'm not questioning the skill of our known tutors, as I only have experience of a few. (Whose expertise, or methods, went straight over my head!)
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Lester

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2020, 10:26:52 PM »

Whose expertise, or methods, went straight over my head!
Did you let them know this at the time? And if so did they try to help you out?

Dick Rees

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2020, 10:35:10 PM »

"What qualification would you like to see"

That's not a question which I have actively considered, as I won't ever be using a teacher. (I'm a hopeless student and consequently have to find my own way.) That is possibly why I haven't progressed very much since we met at the NE playgroup thing, on your third(?) day of first handling a box and playing like an old hand!

What qualifications do music teachers require? I'm not questioning the skill of our known tutors, as I only have experience of a few. (Whose expertise, or methods, went straight over my head!)


I do not "teach".  Rather, I mentor and assist the seeker by answering their questions.  If you have no questions, there are no answers, QED.

If the presentation goes over your head, perhaps the presenter failed to find out where your head was at.  Effective instructors/tutors/mentors make this effort.
Perhaps this is a qualifier.

Please pardon my ending a sentence with a preposition...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 10:40:28 PM by Dick Rees »
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Winston Smith

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2020, 10:48:38 PM »

"Did you let them know this at the time? "

I think I did, they were all quite a while ago. (Steve Dumpleton did get through, a bit.) The others were in group situations; and not wanting to keep others back, I just made my excuses and left.

But this isn't about me and my obvious failings, I'm interested just for interest's sake. I had a friend, many tears ago, who was an English teacher, but she became a peripatetic teacher of guitar for our local education committee. It was better money, or so she told me and I don't think she had any formal music qualification.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2020, 11:56:31 PM »


... I had a friend, many tears ago, who was an English teacher, but she became a peripatetic teacher of guitar for our local education committee. It was better money, or so she told me and I don't think she had any formal music qualification.

I didn't know you knew my wife. That's exactly what she did.

Is the unspoken  question:

1. Is a learner being short changed if their teacher doesn't have a formal qualification in teaching the instrument in question, or

2. Are formally qualified instructors being undermined, in their efforts to make a living, by competition from unqualified charletans?
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2020, 01:23:49 AM »

As someone who holds teaching qualifications and has been a teacher, a lecturer and a researcher into styles of teaching and learning before I even began teaching music workshops and one-to-one lessons, I might be expected to think that trained teachers make better melodeon tutors, but I don't think it is quite that simple. Some qualified teachers have a 'one-size-fits-all' approach to teaching, which can be frustrating for students who don't suit that particular style, while others are more successful because they are more flexible in their approach.

Some people who have had no training whatsoever have a natural rapport with students and make very effective melodeon tutors. While knowing something about teaching and learning styles and educational theory can be beneficial, I don't think it is essential and I could name several very successful melodeon tutors who have no knowledge of educational theory.
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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2020, 06:56:58 AM »

I guess you could expect that someone with a teaching qualification (academic) would have certain knowledge and ability in terms of communicating and knowledge sharing but unless coupled with some serious amount of playing skill I don't think it would count for much in the arena of melodeon teaching - certainly not compared with being a stonkingly good player who is enthusiastic and encouraging.


Simlarly someone who is a qualified music teacher would (hopefully) have good communication skills and know how to present material. They would also undoubtedly have a depth of knowledge of music theory at their disposal. I'm not sure whether it is necessarily an advantage though given that there are no formal grades and standards in melodeon playing and most players are partly or largely self taught. I'd rather learn from  great melodeon player rather than a melodeon player who has trained to teach music - I guess that's mostly to do with the nature of traditional music and the crazy instrument we play.

I've been taught by a wide range of melodeon players, mostly at workshops. Most were in the extremely good to amazing range in terms of playing skill.  Some were amazing communicators, enthusiasts and extremely able to explain and encourage - others really, really weren't.  I can think of three workshop leaders who I would avoid in future but many more who I would recommend.

Lockdown aside, these days I don't really go to workshops much except for Saul Rose's Melodeon Masterclass at Sidmouth. I don't think anyone would say that Saul's style is that of a conventional teacher in any way -  but his masterclass is brilliant, inspiring and challenging.  There is also the small fact that he is an absolutely brilliant musician - give me that over qualifications and theory any day.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2020, 08:31:41 AM »

"I didn't know you knew my wife."

Ooh, Greg! That begs the question, "Who else hasn't she told you about?" Hehe!
But seriously; both of those unspoken questions could well be part of it, but not confined to only them.

Hello Bob, and thanks for your two penn'orth. Your wide and long experience is most valued, but (although I realise you're talking about "successful" as being in bringing students along) your assertion that, "Some qualified teachers have a 'one-size-fits-all' approach to teaching, which can be frustrating for students who don't suit that particular style, while others are more successful because they are more flexible in their approach." does open up another aspect! Qualifications can deliver financial "success" to a teacher who is actually hopeless at their job, which must be slightly frustrating to those of you who draw the same salary for doing the job well? But that's not a subject for a melodeon based forum, is it? 

Looking at Theo's list of freelance Melodeon Teachers (which I hadn't come across before) it would seem that many on there do seem to have teaching qualifications of one sort or another. Which I do find reassuring? And, there are also others, without formal or written qualifications, who, on the strength of their reputations, are excellent tutors/mentors or whatever and who manage to persevere with dolts like me and turn them into passable musicians. But I suppose that there are also melodeon teachers, with or without qualifications, who don't do too well and therefore struggle to make any sort of living at it.

Thanks to all who've contributed, I think that my question has been more or less answered now.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2020, 08:44:43 AM »

Qualified music teachers are generally, to my knowledge, qualified in classical or orchestral instruments such as the string family ( violin, cello etc ) wind ( clarinet, bassoon, flute, oboe etc ) or keyboard such as piano.
Many started learning within a formal structure and at an early stage.
None of this is true for melodeon.

As I said earlier, not long ago there was *no* opportunity to be taught. You had to do it all yourself. Or not bother with the instrument.

Now we are starting to become more organised in our approach to the instrument. People have produced tutor books become tutors and set up informal websites to discuss and advise in all things melodeon.
Their qualification is simple. An ability to play well.
 Often they are professional musicians earning a living through melodeon because they play well enough that others enjoy listening to them and are willing enough to pay money to go to concerts or buy their recorded music.
In addition there are some people who have great communication skills and though may not be professional musicians, have the ability to deconstruct and explain things in simple terms and communicate this to a beginner.
I'm immediately thinking that a primary school teacher has different skills to an A level teacher, both have their place in the umbrella of teaching from reception class students to older more accomplished students.

I am aware other cultures have a more formal teaching structure that have been established for a long time - Irish dancing, Irish music, Northumbrian Pipers, Scottish societies (?) and Melnet members here going to France for extended workshops etc....
I don't know if these are with formally qualified teachers or based on those people accomplished in their instrument or performance, 'ability lead'.

We are only just starting to assemble a structure for teaching melodeon.
I wonder how that will evolve in the future, and if it will become more formalised.
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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2020, 08:48:54 AM »

Ah......I pressed 'send' as Winston posted!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2020, 08:56:56 AM »

I tend towards the 'you've either got it or you haven't' cliche when it comes to teaching/tutoring.

I suspect that a modern teaching qualification would make you a better teacher of a group for a series of lessons based on a learning programme.

That's not the same as being a good tutor/mentor where the ability to inspire and encourage is probably more important.

I should add one assumes a qualification might cover teaching reluctant learners, which isn’t all that relevant if we are talking about helping melodeon players who are motivated and keen to learn.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 09:47:24 AM by Little Eggy »
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Sharon

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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2020, 10:01:19 AM »

I guess you could expect that someone with a teaching qualification (academic) would have certain knowledge and ability in terms of communicating and knowledge sharing but unless coupled with some serious amount of playing skill I don't think it would count for much in the arena of melodeon teaching - certainly not compared with being a stonkingly good player who is enthusiastic and encouraging.


Simlarly someone who is a qualified music teacher would (hopefully) have good communication skills and know how to present material. They would also undoubtedly have a depth of knowledge of music theory at their disposal. I'm not sure whether it is necessarily an advantage though given that there are no formal grades and standards in melodeon playing and most players are partly or largely self taught. I'd rather learn from  great melodeon player rather than a melodeon player who has trained to teach music - I guess that's mostly to do with the nature of traditional music and the crazy instrument we play.

I've been taught by a wide range of melodeon players, mostly at workshops. Most were in the extremely good to amazing range in terms of playing skill.  Some were amazing communicators, enthusiasts and extremely able to explain and encourage - others really, really weren't.  I can think of three workshop leaders who I would avoid in future but many more who I would recommend.

Lockdown aside, these days I don't really go to workshops much except for Saul Rose's Melodeon Masterclass at Sidmouth. I don't think anyone would say that Saul's style is that of a conventional teacher in any way -  but his masterclass is brilliant, inspiring and challenging.  There is also the small fact that he is an absolutely brilliant musician - give me that over qualifications and theory any day.

The London college of music do offer grades in traditional music and melodeon is one of the instruments listed. Tbf it’s a choice between Irish or Scotttish trad but still, you can do grades on the melodeon. They also do teaching diplomas in trad music.

https://lcme.uwl.ac.uk/exams/traditional-music/irish-traditional-music
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Re: Teaching qualifications
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2020, 10:26:56 AM »

Thanks Sharon.
In my opinion there are two very good points there.
There are courses available now. I'm not sure exactly what Newcastle and Sheffield provide but am aware they offer courses in traditional music.
I have been fortunate in attending a workshop run by one of their graduates and excellent it was too.
My cd collection contains people who have graduated from these courses and perhaps this new generation coming through represent a new more formally trained traunch of people.

Sharon's comment illustrate something that I have been aware of during my time dancing.
As a nation we put *no value* on our traditional cultures.
Others such as our Irish and Scots neighbours value their culture, as do many other nations to the point of supporting it and providing opportunities to learn it as a recognised form of music.
English traditional music nearly died out until it's revival in the early 1970's. Since then we've learnt to play it, become more accomplished in our playing, started grass roots methods of teaching and now started to recognise this at national level with universities and colleges offering courses and their graduates starting to be seen in the teaching environment.
Others have been doing it for many years...
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I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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