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Author Topic: bcc#  (Read 19184 times)

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Bill Young

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2009, 10:23:18 PM »

for me there is only one tuning for a BCC# & thats as near to a shand morino as possible.  Doess anyone know exactly what the shand morino tuning  is in cents.  My Casali is not that far off & is signed inside (presumably after a retune or overhaul) by 'D Crawford  of Alloa'. He's done a very nice job  - is he still around,

george
George,
As I said in the other thread on Scottish musette tuning, my Shand Morino has a note inside saying "Cents #26 b23 mid A" (i.e. +26  0  -23 in cents), dated and initialled J.C. That's John Crawford from Freuchie. He's definitely the main man for Shand Morinos. Don't know if there's any connection with your D. Crawford.

Bill
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graememackay

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2009, 12:18:47 AM »

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pete /acorn

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2009, 07:14:21 AM »

Hi,
Many thanks for all replies,keep it going.
Re tuning,because Robert is selling  instruments that are better made and sound very good [will try to attach sound clip later],and is doing reed installation,tuning and final set up in house then you can spec what you want.
I appreciate what Graham is saying about providing cheap instruments for starters but as a manufacturer you have to decide which camp you want to be in,many manufacturers now are selling under recognised old names but it has been said before they are actually is a lot of cases the same instrument re badged and made who knows where,I'me sure Manfrini are not trying to be in that camp.
I also think that people should realise,even as instruments for improvers rather than starters,better quality instrument play easier and give more pleasure than less well made,also if you do not carry on playing are easier to sell,if you do Cary on you tend to keep a smaller unit,as many on this forum.


Pete
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Gandy

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2009, 08:25:12 AM »

Just to chip in my tuppence (even though I'm not in the market for a new B/C/C#).   For a beginners instrument, I don't think there's anything wrong with two voice.  Three voice is better, of course, but some people don't like that sound either so you start to require couplers and it all pushes the cost up.   Before you know it you'll be over two grand.   

Has anyone tried either of the Crucianellis?  I've no idea how they stack up for quality, but specification seems OK in terms of number of buttons at both ends.   I would have thought that any new design should be pitching either above them (around the two grand mark) and therefore not for the beginner, or below them somewhere between 500-1000.
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Re: bcc#
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2009, 09:29:59 AM »

In the end of the day, the tuning is adjustable.  As long as the reeds are good quality and can handle the change, I don't think having it as an option for the buyer is an essential factor, it would just add to the cost of the instrument.

I agree that tuning is adjustable, but potential buyers frequently don't understand that.   Many avoid certain brands because of the way they are typically tuned.  I've heard many people say they would not buy a Hohner because they don't like wet tuning, and others who would not buy a Castagnari because they are not wet tuned!  With a new brand you have the opportunity to dispel that myth, but it does have to be spelled out very clearly.
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pete /acorn

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2009, 10:20:45 AM »

Hi,
I can only comment on what I have found so far,When we first contacted Rolstons accordions when Marie started playing and wanted to upgrade from her Hohner student V Rolstons sent a 96 bass Guirrini Oxford on approval,which we bought,in this case we enquired about the boxes by email and Robert rang from Italy to disscuss our requirements,he then offered to send us a accordion to try and approve,this arrived very promptly,
Re tuning this is then disscussed and in our case the tuning of the sample accordion was what Marie wanted,full Scotish mussett,if we wanted something different then Robert said he would send sound samples of your new box before delivery for approval.
Good service I think.

Pete
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Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

graememackay

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2009, 11:22:09 AM »

There is always going to be a balance between quality & price.  There is no point in a manufacturer making a cheap accordion that doesn't sell because it's rubbish, but at the same time, if they make an amazing accordion that costs the earth, they may sell even less.

There are plenty manufacturers that will make one to order for a few grand.  The market is missing a quality affordable accordion and thats why there is nobody playing them.

I'm pretty sure more music shops will want them in stock if they know that it's a good instrument at a good price.  Think Ford mondeo of the b/c/c# world.
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Owen Woods

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2009, 02:13:52 PM »

And at today's prices, a grand is a very good price for any melodeon, let alone a three row with stradella bass.
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Re: bcc#
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2009, 03:51:50 PM »

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george garside

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2009, 03:54:56 PM »

And at today's prices, a grand is a very good price for any melodeon, let alone a three row with stradella bass.
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Owen Woods

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2009, 04:04:49 PM »

And at today's prices, a grand is a very good price for any melodeon, let alone a three row with stradella bass.
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Re: bcc#
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2009, 04:17:24 PM »

Hi,
I was actually going to put that point George,you must be a mind reader,but decided not to kick that hornets nest

Pete
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Acorn Instruments are the official retailer for Castagnari Instruments,Melodeons and Accordions for England and Scotland and have an extensive stock of new instruments on the shelf for prompt delivery in standard layouts however these can easily be changed to customers specia lrequirements
 We also have the largest stock in the UK of  pre loved melodons all fully serviced,and with 12 months warranty
UK and international customers catered for
www.acorninstruments.co.uk

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2009, 05:02:02 PM »

So whats stopping us from creating something affordable with reasonable quality? Laugh in the face of Danger and not give all the profits to the Italian mafia!
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Gandy

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2009, 05:26:53 PM »

.... Take this cheapo Hohner BCC#.
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Tony S

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2009, 05:42:28 PM »

So whats stopping us from creating something affordable with reasonable quality? Laugh in the face of Danger and not give all the profits to the Italian mafia!

Capital. It costs a lot to start up a business and I'm assuming that with the current financial crisis few venture capitalists are going to support an affordable British Chromatic builder :P If we want it to be really cheap then it will need to be mass produced in a factory, but tooling and so on creates a large amount of expense right at the beginning of the enterprise.

A possible option would be to get into contact with a chinese factory. They are churning out better quality stuff all the time and they copy things very well. I know of one similar enterprise (a modern C saxophone) that was produced by this method and aside from a lot of major teething problems is now doing reasonably well.

Of course the reed blocks, reeds, valves and so on would have to be fitted here, as well as them being fully tuned. The chinese would produce a carcass which we would then fit out. Only problem is that I don't know how well the Chinese are doing with regards acccordions, their brass instruments are getting very good but that may not apply to the rest of their stuff.
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Bergflodt D/G 4 voice, Saltarelle Bouebe D/G, Super Preciosa D/Em, Hohner Impiliput B/C+C#

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2009, 07:29:12 PM »

Possibly the simplest way would be to order a 3 row (as long  as it had a flat keyboard) continental to be supplied with a BCC# reedset & larger airhole & proper airbar. The 48 /60 or 72 bass would remain as is.  I havn't come accross any chinese continentals. 

As has been suggested a compadre with 12 stradella would be similar in concept if not quality to a trichord 2. However there would be more than changing the bass reeds involved as the buttons would need repositioning diagonally & linkage totally rejigging.  A compromose would be to keep the'melodeon' bass layout  but put bass notes & chords in same direction so you would have the same notes/chords as 12 stradella but they would not entirely serve as an introduction to that system. Would be better if HOhner could bugger about with a piano accordion 48 bass end to make it fit, perhaps using a simple adapter plate or tapered bellows.  Better still just  resurect the tichord - the tooling for it is probably still around somewhere.

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Theo

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2009, 07:41:08 PM »

As has been suggested a compadre with 12 stradella would be similar in concept if not quality to a trichord 2. However there would be more than changing the bass reeds involved as the buttons would need repositioning diagonally & linkage totally rejigging. 

Moving the linkage round is actually quite simple if the Compadre uses the standard Hohner bass mechanism.  Repositioning the holes is not to hard either.  I think the Compadre has a black painted finish, not pearloid?  So refinishing would be fairly simple.  Replacing the reeds I suspect is the costliest part of the job.  If someone is keen to try this I'll do some costings.  Anyone have a Compadere I could have a look at - photos would be a good start.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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george garside

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2009, 08:03:33 PM »

Theo - have emailed you a pic of compadre

george
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george garside

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2009, 08:05:55 PM »

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Theo

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Re: bcc#
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2009, 08:15:52 PM »

Theo - have emailed you a pic of compadre

george

Thanks George,  I was thinking in terms of someon who had one that could take some internal photos too.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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