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Author Topic: What notation helpers do you use?  (Read 5307 times)

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stevejay

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What notation helpers do you use?
« on: October 09, 2009, 12:50:20 AM »

If you do use musical notation of course, do you make any notes? I put an "o" above the note if it crosses the row i.e. G row in a D major tune, and might write "push" or "pull" to distinquish between a push or pull d chord or run etc. That's it, too many notes and I make myself confused.

How about you?
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tjsmithdog5

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 02:57:50 AM »

I spent a lot of years playing classical music on stringed instruments, so it was very natural for me to associate up-bow with "pull" and down-bow with "push".  For this reason, my music is littered with the standard bowing symbols for up and down. On the other hand, I still haven't decided on numbering for fingers...is the index finger "1" like a violin, or "2" like a keyboard instrument?
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Chris Ryall

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 06:40:22 AM »

o   .   o   o   .    .   .

For unfamiliar scales I draw a little grid of notes with 'o' as a pull and a filled in 'o' or 'x' as push (the Oakwood doesn't have an Ab on pull).  I've marked my Ab/Bb button here as o but with the biro it'd be an o and x superimposed. Any dots left are notes outside the scale you're using. Some 'interesting' some 'avoid' some quite deadly.

As you progress some of the scales become automatic and you can name every button's notes without a crib.

.. that's probably why I'm gazing so fixedly at the keyboard in the picture (which is from )
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 06:44:06 AM by chrisryall »
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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 07:39:58 AM »

I spent a lot of years playing classical music on stringed instruments, so it was very natural for me to associate up-bow with "pull" and down-bow with "push".  For this reason, my music is littered with the standard bowing symbols for up and down. On the other hand, I still haven't decided on numbering for fingers...is the index finger "1" like a violin, or "2" like a keyboard instrument?
I also use the up-bow and down-bow symbols to indicate pull and push on the bellows (except that I think my up-bow symbol is upside down like an inverted 'V')

As a further refinement I sometimes add a little blob like a note head on to the left or right side of the symbol, to indicate the inside row or the outside row respectively.

For RH finger indications I borrow the classical guitar conventions 'p i m a c', where
p = pulgar (thumb)
i = indice (index finger)
m = medio (middle finger)
a = annular (ring finger)
c = chiquita (little finger)

Needless to say, I rarely use the 'p'  ;)

I don't use these symbols all the time but only as a reminder above certain notes in written music whilst I am learning a tune.
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Graeme

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 08:49:43 AM »

If you do use musical notation of course, do you make any notes? I put an "o" above the note if it crosses the row i.e. G row in a D major tune, and might write "push" or "pull" to distinquish between a push or pull d chord or run etc. That's it, too many notes and I make myself confused.

How about you?

What works for me (playing BC) is to use a green highlighter for push notes and red for pull. I'm really struggling to translate dots or ABC on paper to my fingers but the colour works for me (although it still takes a ot of time for it to sink in).

Graeme
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ladydetemps

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2009, 08:51:53 AM »

Well if somethings played on the D row I'm lost unless I write down button number and if its push or pull. :(
I try to think of it as stabilisers on a bike once I get the hang of it I can get rid of all my scribbles.

mikesamwild

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2009, 02:57:00 PM »

I've found a button diagram with push / pull notes and, as mentioned,  two highlighters for the ABc version of the tune is a great help.  I transferred it to anglo and Duet concertina with good results. Finger numbers 1(index),2, 3,4(pinkie) can be added.

Like any 'scientific' system it eventually becomes an art and you internalize it .  My original D/G melodeon tune book was started in the late 60s but I hardly look at it now.  However I started another for the C#/D Mairtin Connor Saltarelle box
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Bryson

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2009, 08:41:12 PM »

Here is what my notation looks like.. I'd posted it some time ago but here it is again:
http://www.e724.de/MUSIC/cross_rowing_Planxty_Irwin_and_Sheebeg_Sheemore.pdf
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Bob Ellis

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 08:43:03 PM »

Whenever I learn a new tune, I always write the fingering above e.g. D2 means that I play it on the D row with my second finger (middle finger) and G4 means I play it on the G row with my fourth finger (little finger). When playing in keys other than D or G, I often underline notes played on the pull to distinguish them from notes played on the push.
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stevejay

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 08:57:29 PM »

Here is what my notation looks like.. I'd posted it some time ago but here it is again:
http://www.e724.de/MUSIC/cross_rowing_Planxty_Irwin_and_Sheebeg_Sheemore.pdf


That is truly a work of art. But the simpler the page, the easier for me at least. I would only notate what I might forget later. Actually the goal is to get rid of the paper altogether! ::)
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george garside

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 10:55:48 AM »

Curious - I've virtually never annotated fingers. I try to think of buttons relative to each other. This of course is a bugger if you happen to start on the wrong one!


I agree button numbers are more useful than finger numbers and to this end I use button notation in beginners workshops & also in my beginners DG book. I use large arrows facing up or down with the buttonnumbr in the arrow so it can be seen from afar! arrow down+push, arrow up =pull.

the trouble with using finger 'notation' is
- it doesn't indicate which button to use said  fingr on
- it sends a signal to the brain that there is a 'correct' finger to use for a particular note eg 2nd finger for B or whatever.  In order to get hte best out of the right hanad it is important to be abole to play any note with any finger so that you'e got 3 spares to play other notes.  Which finger you use for what note will vary from bit of tune to bit of tune.   In other words think about the note you require rather than a finger for a note & use the most convenient finger.  A good way of learning this is to play complete tunes withone finger( anything up to about march speed) then play it with a nother finger & so on until you play can play it with the little finger.

In the long term it is better to dispense with any 'helpful' notation & prctice scales.  This applies equally playing by ear or from dots.  Familiarity with scales enables you to -next note 3 higher (or whatever) & know where that note is. Same with dots - there isn't time to read next note is ,say,f#  you just read that it is the next one up or 3 down or whatever.

hope this helps somebody somewhere

george ;)
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Chris Ryall

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2009, 11:02:13 AM »

I've kept back from saying I 've never numbered buttons for fear of causing offence. While it's useful in the first couple of months I feel it's a barrier to learning that 'that one' pulled is G - which is really what it's about. Echo the comment on scales too (although they can be bloody tedious).  And the "any finger'll do" method.

Personally I see the note runs on the keyboard geometrically as triangles, zig zag patterns etc, but suspect that isn't mainstream. Might be something to do with being a south-paw.

.. and like Ukebert I'm a confirmed prodder - especially if playing (off topically) by ear
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 11:28:21 AM by chrisryall »
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Owen Woods

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 11:11:28 AM »

Curious - I've virtually never annotated fingers. I try to think of buttons relative to each other. This of course is a bugger if you happen to start on the wrong one!

I've never annotated fingers or buttons. As with you, I think of relative spacing and pattern rather than anything else. It works for me, whereas learning which button does what would slow me down hugely.

And in gigs you would notice me cautiously prodding my box until I find the right note to start on :P
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george garside

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2009, 11:51:27 AM »

once the 'any finger will do method' is sorted its worth experimenting with the thumb!!!   It can be used when playing at the 'dusty end where no bugger goes'  to add rhythm or play the tune (1 fingr =1 thumb) or to gt a chord down at the lower end in a similar way to the foot keyboard on an organ.  Two straps are essential!

george ;D
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Owen Woods

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2009, 12:39:59 PM »

once the 'any finger will do method' is sorted its worth experimenting with the thumb!!!   It can be used when playing at the 'dusty end where no bugger goes'  to add rhythm or play the tune (1 fingr =1 thumb) or to gt a chord down at the lower end in a similar way to the foot keyboard on an organ.  Two straps are essential!

george ;D

The thought crossed my mind last night actually, I might give it a go ;D
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Bob Ellis

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2009, 11:11:03 PM »

I agree button numbers are more useful than finger numbers and to this end I use button notation in beginners workshops & also in my beginners DG book.

I suppose it depends what you are trying to achieve. I know which notes are on which buttons so I don't see any benefit to me of using button numbers, whereas I have a choice about which finger to use on each note and, in some cases, whether to play the note on the D row or the G row. Therefore, I find a notation that combines the row letter with the finger number a useful reminder of the patern of fingering I choose to use in each tune.
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SteveC

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 10:06:37 AM »

As a beginner of just a few weeks I find the right hand falls in place with practice. I can read music and agree with Chris that a bit of scales practice builds up familiarity. A few written notes or arrows above the stave to remind you of the push and pull are enough for me.

I've also found an adapted keyboard chart useful as I learn note positions. (Attached). As well as showing notes on the stave I've also colour coded it to show where the same note can be had on a push or a pull.

However, what flummoxes me as a beginner is the left hand. I see a lot of music annotated to show you around the right but leaves the left hand as just a chord. I am determined that as I learn not to just rely on dum-ching or dum-ching-ching. I've seen a lot of French tunes that indicate what to do with the bass/chords but these are mostly in C and I'm on a D/G. I could transpose but time is a limiting factor.

So what notation do you use for the left hand?
Any suggestions for interesting rhythms? (I'm particular stuck with making a 6/4 tune sound pleasant at the moment?
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SteveC

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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 10:27:53 AM »

Having just posted the above I've picked up this thread on RH vs LH for rhythm.

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,2605.0.html

I'm with Chrisryall, whilst the RH can have rhythm and pace etc, it is the left hand which can kill or lift it.

So, interesting techniques for the LH please.
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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 11:23:17 AM »

I am a newcomer to playing the melodeon but can read music so use a keyboard chart (downloaded from mel.net) and mark 'draw' or 'push' above the bars of music according to what bass chords I will need or whether I will cross row or whatever. I try not to rely on much being written on the music because I am really keen to play from memory and don't want to get stuck with music in front of me.
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Re: What notation helpers do you use?
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 10:07:49 AM »

Personally I see the note runs on the keyboard geometrically as triangles, zig zag patterns etc, but suspect that isn't mainstream. Might be something to do with being a south-paw.

It's the way I see it, and it applies to chords too,  I'm a north-paw btw.
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