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Author Topic: While shepherds watched their flocks by night  (Read 10637 times)

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Mike Higgins

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While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« on: November 15, 2009, 02:47:53 PM »

I believe that this was, at one time, the only carol that could be sung in church in England. As a result many different tunes were written to make the thing a bit more interesting for the congregations. Does anyone know if a collection of these tunes has ever been published? I rather fancy the idea of learning some of the best tunes and singing them. Also does anyone know why the dullest most mournful version was the one chosen by the Anglican church?
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Mike from Ponte Caffaro

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 03:24:09 PM »

Really good sung to On Ilkley Moor Baht'at

TomB-R

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 03:49:38 PM »

Really good sung to On Ilkley Moor Baht'at

I beleive it's the other way round, "Ilkley Moor" is sung to one of the WSWTFBN tunes!

I'd never heard that it was the only carol "allowed" but there are a huge number of different tunes for it.
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Ollie

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 03:52:47 PM »

As far as I know, there are 19 different tunes to this carol, and there are several different versions of various Coope, Boyes and Simpson Christmas albums. These albums also include different tunes and words to other famous carols. Their live show with Fi Fraser, Jo Freya and Georgina Boyes is worth catching if you can.
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ganderbox

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 05:46:49 PM »

My favourite has to be Lyngham, especially when it's sung with the full vocal arrangement.

http://www.mutopiaproject.org/ftp/JarmanT/Lyngham/Lyngham-a4.pdf
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Pauline from Cornwall

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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2009, 05:57:07 PM »

My theory is based on the practice of choirs I have known. Everybody knows the words to "Shepherds" and it is a common meter, therefore the words were frequently used to help the choir to learn new tunes. Any other ideas?  :-*

PS: A good book for these is Worrall MVC's "The Joy Of Christmas". My favourite tune is "Sweet Christmas Bells". "Winchester Old" sucks!  :'( How do we get the dear old CofE to change (bless us) ?  :-\

Regards,
Chris.
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Mike Higgins

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2009, 06:02:19 PM »

Quote
My favourite tune is "Sweet Christmas Bells"

I'm completely in agreement, this is an ace tune, although Lyngham is another fabulous tune , I've never heard it used for "While shepherds"!!!!
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Mike from Ponte Caffaro

Ollie

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2009, 06:07:42 PM »

I think my favourite version is "Hail Chime On". I just love the chorus!  :D
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Mike Higgins

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2009, 06:10:51 PM »

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Mike from Ponte Caffaro

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 01:41:21 PM »

Lyngham's my fave.  You rarely hear it sung any other way in Cornwall! 

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 03:17:27 PM »

Trigg Morris sing several versions of it on their pre-Christmas morris and mumming outings. The most bizarre is probably the one to the tune of The Laughing Policeman.
When in full voice, however, their rendition of Lyngham sends shivers up your spine!
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Pauline from Cornwall

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Chris Ryall

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2009, 08:32:00 AM »

Lyngham's my fave.  You rarely hear it sung any other way in Cornwall! 

I remember it from school days, lovely tune. That pdf posted above is quite interesting in that I've never seen so many chords applied to a brief tune. The middle section has virtually one per note! Even Charlie Parker didn't manage that ???

My C/F Club didn't sell at Witney so perhaps I could try rearranging Lyngham "completely on the left hand end" - or perhaps not  ;)
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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2009, 10:09:36 AM »

Lyngham's my fave.  You rarely hear it sung any other way in Cornwall! 

I remember it from school days, lovely tune. That pdf posted above is quite interesting in that I've never seen so many chords applied to a brief tune. The middle section has virtually one per note! Even Charlie Parker didn't manage that ???


I see what you mean about the chords. I suppose that is what a piano player would play.
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Pauline from Cornwall

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mikesamwild

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 11:47:12 AM »

Really good sung to On Ilkley Moor Baht'at


I too reckon Ilkley Moor was a parody on an original carol, it's such a good tune and such a crap song! Ask any English tourists for a folk song and that's what you get.

In the Morris we used to sing it to Ghost Riders in the Sky, and Long Distance Information Give me Memphis Tennesseeit seems to be quite happy being played around with


Don't get me wrong I've been going to our local carols since 1962 and love 'em.  We were at Worrall on Sunday and it was packed for the first sing.  Old Foster seemed to go down best. I understand that Dungworth was too.

We've had singers from Glen Rock Pennsylvania over who sing the carols, they were taken over by a group of mill workers who migrated there


« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 11:54:49 AM by mikesamwild »
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Mike in Sheffield

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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2009, 02:20:05 PM »

The "Ilkla Moor" tune is properly called "Cranbrook". The words were thought up on a choir outing to the eponymous place sometime around 1900 or so. (Source: My memories of a "Dalesman" article sometime in the 1950's or 1960's).  ;D

(Thank you whoever put in "modify". Guess which posh word I misspelt?)  :|bl
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 06:37:47 PM by Ebor_fiddler »
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I'm a Yorkie!
My other melodeon's a fiddle, but one of my Hohners has six strings! I also play a very red Hawkins Bazaar in C and a generic Klingenthaler spoon bass in F.!! My other pets (played) are gobirons - Hohner Marine Band in C, Hohner Tremolo in D and a Chinese Thingy Tremolo in G.

mikesamwild

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2009, 02:16:24 PM »

Thanks Ebor, so was Cranbrook a tune for While Shepherds?
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Mike in Sheffield

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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2009, 11:41:48 PM »

Yes, and it really swings any pub in the Christmas period. The punters go for it large.  :||:
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I'm a Yorkie!
My other melodeon's a fiddle, but one of my Hohners has six strings! I also play a very red Hawkins Bazaar in C and a generic Klingenthaler spoon bass in F.!! My other pets (played) are gobirons - Hohner Marine Band in C, Hohner Tremolo in D and a Chinese Thingy Tremolo in G.

mikesamwild

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 12:04:23 PM »

I met Chris Brown from Elland W Yorks yesterday at the Worrall carols.  He was filling me in on carols from all over, often taken by Cornish miners to hard rock mines worldwide.. He said Cranbrook was written by Thomas Clark, a cobbler from Canterbury in 1840.  the Ilkley Moor parody was, as you wrote, composed after a glee club visited Ilkley.


I just remembered we also sang While Shepherds to The White Cockayde
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Mike in Sheffield

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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2009, 11:47:25 PM »

That sounds about right. Cranbrook village is in Kent.

Chris Brownbridge.
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I'm a Yorkie!
My other melodeon's a fiddle, but one of my Hohners has six strings! I also play a very red Hawkins Bazaar in C and a generic Klingenthaler spoon bass in F.!! My other pets (played) are gobirons - Hohner Marine Band in C, Hohner Tremolo in D and a Chinese Thingy Tremolo in G.

Ollie

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Re: While shepherds watched their flocks by night
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2009, 07:11:08 PM »

Here is the Pentonville tune as done by the fantastic Kerfuffle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78gEgppL1E&feature=channel
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Hohner Erika 12 bass D/G : Hohner Erika Bb/Eb : Hohner 1 row 4 stop D : Hohner Erica 9 bass D/G :

http://www.olliekingmusic.com/

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