Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: which piano accordion for beginner?  (Read 21577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

boscaceoil

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
which piano accordion for beginner?
« on: November 30, 2009, 06:41:34 PM »

Hi,
I play button accordion and have been asked for advice on which is a good piano accordion model for a beginner (an adult to learn to play some waltzes, Irish tunes etc.). I imagine any of the good makers who make button accordions would be OK, saltarelle, mengascini, paolo soprani etc. Any comments/advice welcome - I also would think this person would choose a mid sized box (say 72 bass?).

Regards,

Tom.
Logged

RGF

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2009, 06:56:44 PM »

When I picked up the PA again about six years ago, I started with a Weltmeister Rubin -- 30 treble keys of slightly narrower width, two sets of treble reeds (MM), and 60 bases. As delivered, it was a little wet for my liking, and I eventually tuned it back a bit. But quite a decent little accordion for a beginner, as well as a compact travel box for a more advanced player. Perhaps a bit higher percentage of plastic and aluminum than the finer makes, but on the other hand I think that kind of contributes to its durability. It's the one I'd always hand to someone who asked, "Hey, can I try that?", without asking them to first put down their beer. And a petite 13" keyboard.

I have since traded it for a Weltmeister Juwel, which is 72 bass, and three treble reeds - LMM.  Although the diminished chord row on the left is of no matter to me, I enjoy having the three sets of reeds on the right hand. And it's in the same size case as the Rubin, with a 13" keyboard. (Although I must say that they both feel like boat anchors compared to my Pokerwork!)

Bob

Logged

boscaceoil

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2009, 07:15:08 PM »

Hi Bob,

Many thanks for the quick response. I have seen Weltmeister accordions in many stores here in Ireland so these may be a good recommendation as they will be readily available.

Regards,
Tom.
Logged

RGF

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2009, 09:16:01 PM »

Sorry I didn't think to mention before, but there are videos of these models at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utrr1FrgtWU&feature=PlayList&p=DDE2750F797D8E62&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16
(Not that "Blue Moon" is exactly my favorite kind of music on this instrument, but at least you can hear how it sounds.)  (:)

The Achat model is essentially the same as the Juwel, that is to say a 3-reed, 72 bass model. The difference is primarily in size. As I have smallish hands, the reduced keyboard size of the Juwel is much to my liking. Kymric Smyth has also posted a video tour of the Weltmeister factory here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYsSifiDapo

Bob
Logged

HallelujahAl

  • Guest
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2009, 10:11:50 PM »

here

Pictured below.
AL

BTW the 2 voice 48 bass
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 10:23:03 PM by HallelujahAl »
Logged

RGF

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2009, 12:08:28 AM »

Al,

The three-reed, 60-bass that you have pictured (Kristal), is not, as far as I know, offered in the U.S. It's kind of like the left side from a Rubin joined to the right side of a Juwel. Rather ideal for folk, I would think, since that diminished row seems to be of so little use anyway.....but 30 keys and three reeds on the right hand is a treat. (And all of these models seem to be built in the same case as the 26/48 Perle.)

My Juwel, which is about 4 or 5 years more recent than the Rubin I sold, seems to have had some improvements made over the years. For one, the treble reedblocks are wood rather than plastic. Also, the bass buttons are now nicely bushed in felt.

I think I'll sign off now and try to come up with a post about something pertaining to button box, lest my registration here be revoked. Been flying under the PA radar long enough, and don't want to push my luck!

Bob

Logged

waltzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 943
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2009, 12:17:40 AM »

Al,

The three-reed, 60-bass that you have pictured (Kristal), is not, as far as I know, offered in the U.S.
Bob



The Kristal is offered by the Button Box in the U.S....at least they list it in their catalogue.
Logged

RGF

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 02:15:37 AM »

Thanks, I didn't know that. The accordion shop here in Minneapolis that is a Weltmeister dealer states on their website, "We offer new accordions by Weltmeister of Germany, available in all varieties and sizes." But they do not show the Kristal. 

Bob
Logged

Nick Hudis

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 334
  • Loffet Pro 18, Castagnari Casta
    • Themassageman
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 09:56:51 AM »

If your beginner friend is very rich, Rees has a Castagnari PA which I think would be to die for.  I gazed fondly at it at Melodeons and More this year, but having just spent an equivalent amount of cash on a Loffet diatonique, held my self back from trying it in case I accidentally beggered myself.  Rees is offering a very good price.
Logged
Nick

HallelujahAl

  • Guest
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 12:14:02 PM »

Quote
Rees has a Castagnari PA which I think would be to die for.


Oh, it's superb - the only problem is I'd be too afraid to take it out of its case and play it.
AL
Logged

James Fitton

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 105
    • Earthquakers
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 02:21:10 PM »

Hello -I suspect there a quite a few of us who cross the PA / button divide, and I'm another one. Partly because I started life as a church organist, and the PA keyboard therefore still feels very instinctive, and partly because you can play equally straightforwardly in any key, which is great when other musicians throw tunes with loads of flats at you. I've tried goodness knows how many PAs over the years in search of one with the bite and punch of a melodeon, however, as I'm not at all keen on the soppy/sogginess of so much PA sound. I've tried several older Weltmeisters, and didn't like the sound or build quality much at all (although I haven't tried the newer ones, so this may be unfair or out of date). The Saltarelle's sound/weight ratio isn't that great, in my opinion, although it looks gorgeous. Hohners tend to sound, well, like Hohners, which is fine if you like that sort of thing. The box I've finally settled on is made by Zero Sette; it's a bit heavy, but has good smooth bellows, and the punchy sound I was after. Not cheap new, but there are loads of secondhand PAs out there.
Logged
melodeons, English concertina, PA - ceilidh and dance tune composer

www.earthquakers.org.uk

boscaceoil

  • Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 02:34:53 PM »

Sorry I didn't think to mention before, but there are videos of these models at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utrr1FrgtWU&feature=PlayList&p=DDE2750F797D8E62&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16
(Not that "Blue Moon" is exactly my favorite kind of music on this instrument, but at least you can hear how it sounds.)  (:)

The Achat model is essentially the same as the Juwel, that is to say a 3-reed, 72 bass model. The difference is primarily in size. As I have smallish hands, the reduced keyboard size of the Juwel is much to my liking. Kymric Smyth has also posted a video tour of the Weltmeister factory here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYsSifiDapo

Bob

Hi Bob,

Many thanks for the youtube videos. Great sound from the Rubin. Great to get so many posts on PAs which will be very helpful.

Regards,

Tom.
Logged

HallelujahAl

  • Guest
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 04:07:47 PM »

Quote
The box I've finally settled on is made by Zero Sette;

Have never had chance to try the zero sette James - however I too had had a bad experience with older Weltmeisters - there is simply no comparison with the new models which are excellent boxes now.
AL
Logged

LDbosca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 674
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 11:56:40 PM »

I've never tried one of their PAs but I had a chromatic system Zero Sette with 120 converter bass and it was an incredible machine, although a little heavy. Beautiful tone, great action. Chromatic system's fun...

Accordion Dave

  • Respected Sage
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 343
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 08:50:33 PM »

For the absolute beginner, a used 12-bass piano accordion would be a good start.

Here in the United States, they are easy to find at summertime flea markets. I think that's a "boot fair" in Great Britain.
Logged

Kautilya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 977
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 11:03:58 PM »

Hi,
I play button accordion and have been asked for advice on which is a good piano accordion model for a beginner (an adult to learn to play some waltzes, Irish tunes etc.). I imagine any of the good makers who make button accordions would be OK, saltarelle, mengascini, paolo soprani etc. Any comments/advice welcome - I also would think this person would choose a mid sized box (say 72 bass?).

Regards,

Tom.
LONDON SELLER
Watch this ebayer
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/60-BASS-STELLA-ACCORDION-ACCORDIAN-gig-bag_W0QQitemZ230422136591QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL?hash=item35a63ac70f

and this one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/32-bass-stella-accordion_W0QQitemZ230422418284QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL?hash=item35a63f136c

I cannot remember which of the two I talked to about a year ago by phone (a woman, perhaps Italian who was happy to alllow try of box in London but I did not go over) but they told me they buy batches of used school accordions from Germany when the school  buys a new batch, and she resells here on ebay. They are clearly still getting them in and they seem to go for betweem 60 quid and 100 so not a dangerous investment.

Stella are apparently Weltmeisters.

Logged

Theo

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11478
  • Hohner Club Too
    • The Box Place
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 11:23:41 PM »


Stella are apparently Weltmeisters.


I doubt that.

There is a Weltmesiter model called the Stella, but the ones I've seen all have the Weltmeister name on the case.

The Stella accordions that are all over ebay are a different beast.  I don't know where they are made, but there is an ebay seller in Germany selling them in batches of 5 or 10 for a couple of hundred quid.   I think they are best avoided unless your budget is severely limited. 
Logged
Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

Proprietor of The Box Place for melodeon and concertina sales and service.
Follow me on Twitter and Facebook for stock updates.

HallelujahAl

  • Guest
Re: which piano accordion for beginner?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2010, 09:21:51 AM »

Quote
There is a Weltmesiter model called the Stella, but the ones I've seen all have the Weltmeister name on the case.

The Stella accordions that are all over ebay are a different beast.  I don't know where they are made, but there is an ebay seller in Germany selling them in batches of 5 or 10 for a couple of hundred quid.   I think they are best avoided unless your budget is severely limited. 


Agreed - I do not think for one minute that the Stellas on eBay are Weltmeisters. In fact I have one and it took a lot of very serious work by a professional restorer to make it reasonably playable. Now I love it to bits and would never part with it. But it's not cheap to make good.
AL
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal