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Author Topic: choice for a tune set.  (Read 9631 times)

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Lester

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2010, 10:53:32 PM »

Well can I presume then that someone like JK wouldn't like a rhythm change from one tune to another ?  ???

Famously John didn't even like medlies much. But I've no recent experience in session with him.

I can stand it no longer it's MEDLEYS not MEDLIES

He's out of bed again nurse!

theSmoiler

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2010, 11:16:44 PM »

Well can I presume then that someone like JK wouldn't like a rhythm change from one tune to another ?  ???


I don't think so, Sandy - my inkling was to say 'no' to this as a categoric statement, and  have turned to a couple of my Brass Monkey CD's for verification (JK being one of the founder members of the band, producer of at least one of the CDs, and likely having a large say in choice of material) eg 'Going and staying' has as Track 4 a set comprising of a Scan Tester step dance coupled with an Irish reel - and I'm sure there's lots more examples, both in Brass Monkey and in JK's own concert sets. However, this is what these are ie concert sets, played for the pleasure of listening - not dance sets. I would suspect it depends on context and that the 'Sheepskins' tape (not to hand) tells a different story re. tunes for border morris dance.

Diane 
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Sandy

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2010, 11:59:49 PM »

Well can I presume then that someone like JK wouldn't like a rhythm change from one tune to another ?  ???


I don't think so, Sandy - my inkling was to say 'no' to this as a categoric statement, and  have turned to a couple of my Brass Monkey CD's for verification (JK being one of the founder members of the band, producer of at least one of the CDs, and likely having a large say in choice of material) eg 'Going and staying' has as Track 4 a set comprising of a Scan Tester step dance coupled with an Irish reel - and I'm sure there's lots more examples, both in Brass Monkey and in JK's own concert sets. However, this is what these are ie concert sets, played for the pleasure of listening - not dance sets. I would suspect it depends on context and that the 'Sheepskins' tape (not to hand) tells a different story re. tunes for border morris dance.

Diane 

Thank you Diane,

I rarely put two tunes together. Usually just play a piece that I've been working on and in a way that I wish to interpret it. However, I'm representing the folk club in a formal situation soon and want to put two english dance tunes together. Just didn't want to make a possible huge 'traditional' blunder before I've even started. :|bl Still, I do know enough not to play Sweet Georgia Brown  ;D

Cheers

Sandy
 (:)

Chris Ryall

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2010, 07:25:40 AM »

I can stand it no longer it's MEDLEYS not MEDLIES

Sorry, Lester old bean, I actually meant "mudlies".   Mysteriously all three pass muster on this site's spelling kit.

Sandy, now you've said what it's for the situation is slightly different. For a formal demo I'd personally do something I really really enjoy that "carries itself along". The actual tunes now matter less than your presentational flair. The cooler you feel about it the better it'll be.  Good luck.

How deep is the snow in Abbingdon?  Liverpool was gridlocked yesterday.  Walked home.
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rees

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2010, 10:45:25 AM »

Rubbish and pointless thread alert!  :||:

Why  ???  :|bl

The original question was a good one, but some of the answers that it has thrown up have been rather anal.
Surely all we need to do is play what feels or sounds good at the time - the music don't mind.
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strad

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2010, 11:33:20 AM »

To help put life into a set, I normally look to change the key upwards - so if the first tune is in G
I'll look to a tune in D to follow it. One set which is very popular is Jig of Slurs which is in D & G and going into The Athole Highlanders in A. There's a real lift to the music at the change and if played for a dance you can see the dancers pick up in energy at the change. Some key changes don't work though, so you have to trust your ears.

Nigel
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ganderbox

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2010, 11:44:58 AM »


The original question was a good one, but some of the answers that it has thrown up have been rather anal.

In which case, what makes this thread different from many others which have gone before it?  >:E
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Chris Brimley

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2010, 12:39:35 PM »

Quote
Surely all we need to do is play what feels or sounds good at the time - the music don't mind.

Spot on, Rees  - there are no rules, but good sense is good sense, and slavish adherence to past ideas may not be.
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TomB-R

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2010, 12:47:59 PM »

Quote
Surely all we need to do is play what feels or sounds good at the time - the music don't mind.

Spot on, Rees  - there are no rules, but good sense is good sense, and slavish adherence to past ideas may not be.

But respect for, and enjoyment of, a tradition may be.

The tradition is surely that sets are made up of tunes in the same time signature, often with pleasing changes of key.

(Jurisprudence studies of many years ago trying to get in here!)  It's a "rule" in the descriptive sense, but not in the prescriptive. Same time signature is what we do most of the time, and partly because of that, it's nice, and fun, not to do it sometimes. Just as tunes in the same key sometimes make great sets, it would be tedious in the extreme if anyone started to beleive that you "have" to change time signature.
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ladydetemps

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2010, 12:49:24 PM »

What if you just combined tunes on a similar themed title? ;) :P

Mike Higgins

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2010, 01:17:20 PM »

Quote
What if you just combined tunes on a similar themed title? Wink Tongue

The Bear Dance followed by The Teddy Bears' Picnic???
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Mike from Ponte Caffaro

ladydetemps

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2010, 01:24:12 PM »

Quote
What if you just combined tunes on a similar themed title? Wink Tongue

The Bear Dance followed by The Teddy Bears' Picnic???
Exactly or Farmers in his den to Oats beans n barley grow. ;)

Owen Woods

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2010, 03:35:17 PM »

To help put life into a set, I normally look to change the key upwards - so if the first tune is in G
I'll look to a tune in D to follow it. One set which is very popular is Jig of Slurs which is in D & G and going into The Athole Highlanders in A. There's a real lift to the music at the change and if played for a dance you can see the dancers pick up in energy at the change. Some key changes don't work though, so you have to trust your ears.

Nigel


Agreed, if you want to add some life to a set then either add a sharp or go to another key signature/dance type. I'd concur with others though that although changing time is great fun it is best left to sessions and concert sets, not to dance sets! Although there probably are occasions when it would work, I'm not enough of a dancer to know.
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Sandy

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2010, 04:03:57 PM »

Rubbish and pointless thread alert!  :||:

Why  ???  :|bl

The original question was a good one, but some of the answers that it has thrown up have been rather anal.
Surely all we need to do is play what feels or sounds good at the time - the music don't mind.

I find it easy to just pick a tune I like and suppose it's not natural for me to throw two tunes together. Might stick with what I know. It's so much easier playing in the kitchen  ::)

CHeers

Sandy
 (:)

Chris Ryall

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2010, 04:07:47 PM »

Sorry - I'm beginning to concur with Rees. The beauty of music (folk or otherwise) is that you give a tune 'life' by doing something with that tune.  I'm afraid all this stuff about changing to a more sharp key, medleying a different tune or  switching (bizarrely INHO) to a different rhythm just as their feet get tapping rather mystifies me. We are playing a physical instrument, not a musical box or some sort of  DJ mixer tuntable.

Phrase that original tune in another way. Vary those chords or cross finger them.  Break it's rhythm, resolving nicely back into its beat. Slip in some off scale leading notes. Or simply drop to right hand chords for a while and play some base run against it. Pop in a brief other tune quote that works agaist the same chords. Work a chunk of the tune against a bass drone. The possibilities are endless.

I think TOTM within this forum has well demonstrated just how many interesting ways one can turn a simple folk melody. Sandy - try just one 'favourite' tune - but do it in lots of different ways.

PS: Hey, she just beat me tio it 8)
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Owen Woods

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2010, 06:13:08 PM »

Sorry - I'm beginning to concur with Rees. The beauty of music (folk or otherwise) is that you give a tune 'life' by doing something with that tune.  I'm afraid all this stuff about changing to a more sharp key, medleying a different tune or  switching (bizarrely INHO) to a different rhythm just as their feet get tapping rather mystifies me. We are playing a physical instrument, not a musical box or some sort of  DJ mixer tuntable.

Phrase that original tune in another way. Vary those chords or cross finger them.  Break it's rhythm, resolving nicely back into its beat. Slip in some off scale leading notes. Or simply drop to right hand chords for a while and play some base run against it. Pop in a brief other tune quote that works agaist the same chords. Work a chunk of the tune against a bass drone. The possibilities are endless.

I think TOTM within this forum has well demonstrated just how many interesting ways one can turn a simple folk melody. Sandy - try just one 'favourite' tune - but do it in lots of different ways.

PS: Hey, she just beat me tio it 8)

Heh, I agree with you entirely, but the fact remains that shifting up the sharps, for me at least, gives a massive lift to the tune ;D Although it is a bit lazier than doing something interesting with it, unless you're shifting from A to B, which on a D/G melodeon becomes a tad tricky...
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TomB-R

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2010, 06:31:46 PM »

Yup, agree with Chris.

I'd just add, if anyone who isn't listening carefully notices that you've changed things, you're overdoing it!

(When listening to classical "variations," has anyone else had the thought "why the **** are they doing that already, when they've hardly begun to explore the tune itself!")

Here's the link (again)  to that great article by John K from nearly 30 years ago about exploring a tune properly!
http://www.johnkirkpatrick.co.uk/wr_MedleyMania.htm
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Chris Ryall

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2010, 09:04:33 PM »

Heh, I agree with you entirely, but the fact remains that shifting up the sharps, for me at least, gives a massive lift to the tune ;D Although it is a bit lazier than doing something interesting with it, unless you're shifting from A to B, which on a D/G melodeon becomes a tad tricky...

OK I play a 3-row. But the interesting thing is that flattening notes has the same effect! I think in both cases it is about putting tension into the music. My take is that moving into more sharps (or flats) and changing our tune at the same time to some extent nullifies the tension we've tried to inject.

Hence stick with one theme. Any note that isn't in the present left end chord can be sharped or flatted. Some sound better than others. Mysteriously so can some notes that are present in the chord!  

But that's only half the story. Create some tension .. then relax/resolve it. The link between music and human emotion is fascinating.  Apparently even new born babies can responds to discord and cadence, the same as adults.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 09:06:04 PM by Chris Ryall »
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Sandy

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2010, 11:41:39 PM »

I'm representing the folk club in a formal situation soon and want to put two english dance tunes together. Just didn't want to make a possible huge 'traditional' blunder before I've even started.

If there is any possibility of offending people solely on grounds of non-traditionality (is that a word?), then I should seize the opportunity.

I don't usually play anything 'normal', perhaps I should be pleased with that....doh, too much snow !!

cheers

Sandy

Theo

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Re: choice for a tune set.
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2010, 11:55:34 PM »


I don't usually play anything 'normal', perhaps I should be pleased with that....doh, too much snow !!

cheers

Sandy

You should be fine then!

In Northumberland and Scotland it is quite common to switch between 4/4 and 6/8 (while keeping the same two in a bar pulse) when doing simple repetitive dances that last a long time, for example in strip the willow or Gay Gordons.  This works well, but the band has to be really on the ball to make the changes work.  Also you can change from 6/8 to 9/8 which gives the feeling of changing gear without changing speed, this is almost obligatory in Strip the Willow.
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