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Author Topic: Help with the left hand  (Read 14263 times)

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Bob Ellis

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2010, 12:26:51 PM »

I would agree with those who consider Speed the Plough as suitable for beginners. It was one of the first tunes I learnt, but it was played to a kind of steady hornpipe rhythm that is commonly used for the tune in English sessions or for a Border Morris dance - not the more Irish way that Dave Mallinson plays it.

However, where the tune really comes into its own is as a first tune for introducing ornamentation. About a dozen years ago, when I had just started playing, I went to a workshop run by Martin Ellison of this parish where almost the only tune we played all day was Speed the Plough. Martin showed us all kinds of ways of ornamenting and embellishing the tune and it proved one of the most rewarding workshops that I ever attended: I came away understanding the rudiments of ornamentation that I could apply not only to Speed the Plough, but also to other tunes. Thanks, Martin!
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2010, 12:35:38 PM »

Bob,
This thread is going in a great direction and you have said that you stripped out the ornamentation and bass runs on your copy of L'inconnu de Limoise.
This is exactly what I need to start adding to my playing but without a road map (picture) I'm having a hard time.
Please, please would you, could you, put in some ornamentation and re list L'inconnu de Limoise.   Doesn't have to be trade secrets or anything but just a push in the right direction.
Many thanks
John

Sorry to have been slow to respond, John. I have been off-line for a few days due to dislocating my knee (again!)

I shall try to write out how I play L'Inconnu de Limoise with some ornamentation and some variation to the basses. However, you might have to wait a few days for this until I am more mobile again.
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Bob in beautiful Wensleydale, Les Panards Dansants, Crook Morris and the Loose Knit Band.
Clément Guais 3-row D/G/acc.; Castagnari 1914 D/G; Karntnerland Steirische 3-row G/C/F; Ellis Pariselle 2.6-row D/G/acc.; Gabbanelli Compact 2-row D/G with lots of bling, pre-war Hohner Bb/F; Acadian one-row in D.

Owen Woods

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2010, 01:10:28 PM »

You can play Speed the Plough as a reel? Oh, I was referring to the Morris way of playing it. It may well be very difficult played in the irish way, whatever that is.
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Theo

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2010, 02:42:30 PM »

You can play Speed the Plough as a reel? Oh, I was referring to the Morris way of playing it. It may well be very difficult played in the irish way, whatever that is.

I don't think you can read too much into the word 'reel'. Sure in Irish music a 'reel' is a fairly specific type of tune, but there are tunes with reel in the title which don't conform to that model.   For example Whinhams Reel, written in the 19th century by Robert Whinham from Morpeth, feels more like a polka, or rant to my way of thinking and playing. 

As for Speed the Plough,   it makes a very nice hornpipe, which is how I prefer to play it.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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mikesamwild

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2010, 06:22:22 PM »

I think Speed the Plough is one of those that some people think you can speed up to compete with'Irish players' it just doesn't work as a fast reel  and wrecks the bellows of push/pull up and down the rows players.
I'm sure there are variants in American old timey and Irish or Scottish styles that go well as faster reels

Has anyone got such a version? better still a recording?
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Stiamh

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2010, 09:02:23 PM »

I think Speed the Plough is one of those that some people think you can speed up to compete with'Irish players' it just doesn't work as a fast reel  and wrecks the bellows of push/pull up and down the rows players.
I'm sure there are variants in American old timey and Irish or Scottish styles that go well as faster reels

Has anyone got such a version? better still a recording?

Mike, I posted exactly that in this here thread a while ago (pre-TOTM): http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=1370.20

But I seem to have deleted the clip I put up. No time to find or recreate the combined Irish-Scottish file, and no time just now to record a version for TOTM (which I have been thinking about doing for the last what, 3 months?   ;D ) so here is Jackie Daly, Con O Driscoll, Matt Cranitch & co. playing it in 2008. Apologies for the low-level chattering but I don't think any of it is incriminating.

Theo

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2010, 11:30:01 PM »

   ;D ) so here is Jackie Daly, Con O Driscoll, Matt Cranitch & co. playing it in 2008.

Lovely playing, but I hardly recognised the tune!   Many of the quarter notes left out that Miklos was concerned about.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Ruaraidh

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2010, 01:19:08 PM »

I think Speed the Plough is one of those that some people think you can speed up to compete with'Irish players' it just doesn't work as a fast reel  and wrecks the bellows of push/pull up and down the rows players.
I'm sure there are variants in American old timey and Irish or Scottish styles that go well as faster reels

Has anyone got such a version? better still a recording?

The only version I knew (but definitely cannot play, being a complete beginner) until I started visiting this forum was similar to what Graeme MacKay plays here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXw4G49wgEQ (starting from 1minute in, he plays the version familiar to me from Scottish Ceilidhs)

Ruaraidh
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 01:21:00 PM by Ruaraidh »
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Ruaraidh

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2010, 08:48:51 AM »

Following the discussion above, I thought that I should try Speed the Plough, as a beginner. Although I found the abc in the TOTM thread, I have nothing for the bass side. Can someone give me a simple bass line to accompany the melody, preferably with a bit of explanation? Oh, and on the ECHO I have 80 Stradella bass. I had thought before buying that this would give me lots of possibilities, but to date that is what they remain as I am totally confused by the number and small size of those buttons and tend to press several at once ??? . Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Ruaraidh
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Gandy

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2010, 11:33:41 AM »

If you look on the Tunefinder web site, the are several versions with chord noted, including the first one (in G) ..

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind?P=speed+the+plough&find=FIND&m=title&scale=0.65&limit=1000&thresh=5&fmt=single&V=1&Tsel=tune&Nsel=0

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Tony S

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2010, 01:11:23 PM »

Thanks Tony, I've opened that in Barfly, and now need to know the basics of what to do with those. I can locate the basses and chords corresponding to those letters, but the way they are written does not give much of a clue as to what you should be doing with them. I presume not holding them for the whole bar?

Anyone care to spell it out "for dummies"? :|bl

Thanks

Ruaraidh
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GbH

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2010, 01:30:21 PM »

Thanks Tony, I've opened that in Barfly, and now need to know the basics of what to do with those. I can locate the basses and chords corresponding to those letters, but the way they are written does not give much of a clue as to what you should be doing with them. I presume not holding them for the whole bar?

Anyone care to spell it out "for dummies"? :|bl

Thanks

Ruaraidh

With a stadella instrument, the fundamental thing to learn is the 'alternating bass' pattern for major, minor and 7th chords.  In its basic form, it might not be particularly interesting musically, but that's what the system is built around.  Once you've got the hang of how it works, you'll be able to easily fit it (or variations of it) to tunes guided by the chord names alone.  Here's a YouTube video that explains it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29-uvaMK5g.  Once you've learnt the pattern for one chord, is the same for all others (or, at least, those that are available on your instrument) too.

When you've got this down, an additional step is to learn to include thirds in the bass pattern too.   For major chords, it's easier to use the buttons on the outside row (so, for your root C buton, E will be next to it, on the outside row).  For minors, you'll need to stretch your little finger and find the note with that, which is a bit more tricky.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 01:40:16 PM by GbH »
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Ruaraidh

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2010, 01:38:59 PM »

Thanks! That certainly helps a bit, and the idea of searching on YouTube helps too, which had not occurred to me!

Ruaraidh
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2010, 02:56:08 PM »

Following the discussion above, I thought that I should try Speed the Plough, as a beginner. Although I found the abc in the TOTM thread, I have nothing for the bass side. Can someone give me a simple bass line to accompany the melody, preferably with a bit of explanation?
Ruaraidh

I have attached a score for Speed the Plough, with basses included together with the fingering for the right hand for a two-row D/G melodeon. As with previous notations I have posted, the letters and numbers above the stave represent which finger to use (e.g. D2 is the second or middle finger used on the D row and G4 is the fourth or little finger used on the G row). For the basses below the line, lower case letters are used for the fundamental or root note and capital letters are used for the chords. Since it was written for a standard D/G box (I don't have a stradella), I have also indicated whether to pull or push for the C and D notes and chords, since they occur in both directions on a standard D/G box.

I hope this is of some use. Please ask if you need any further explanation of the notation. Enjoy!
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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2010, 05:09:00 PM »

Thanks Bob! that is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for. Combining the advice from the YouTube clip with this score, I may be able to actually use some of those unexplored bass buttons (still think they are rather small though...) :||:

Ruaraidh
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willriding

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2010, 08:23:16 PM »

I don't know if this helps, but one of my students is doing Michael Turners Waltz and I've put all the parts online here. Youtube is currently uploading the second video with them both played together and I'll post that tonight once its finished processing (It's being a bit slow today).

As a new-ish comer to the box (just over twelve months), this is an interesting thread to follow, this one.And your site is excellent, I shall keep looking in!

Kautilya

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2010, 12:46:08 AM »

I don't know if this helps, but one of my students is doing Michael Turners Waltz and I've put all the parts online here. Youtube is currently uploading the second video with them both played together and I'll post that tonight once its finished processing (It's being a bit slow today).

As a new-ish comer to the box (just over twelve months), this is an interesting thread to follow, this one.And your site is excellent, I shall keep looking in!
The Pirate's  treasure of a map with easy-dots has goaded me to have another go at walking the plank but first I had to check out how far the ship was before jumping onto the plough. I found this and it has put a whole new dimension on the toon for me. Search indicates it has not been posted before.. I hope. I might start by copying the backing played on the teaspoon by the chappy at the bar (or is it a salt cellar?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zDWXmb3Ozo

btw - it would be luvverly if youtubers checked that their left hand is in full view of the camera as it difficult to tell which buttons are being pressed just from the grimaces of their twisting lips as they strive for them  ;) :D
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 02:46:20 AM by Kautilya »
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nemethmik

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2010, 05:39:00 PM »

Search indicates it has not been posted before.. I hope. I might start by copying the backing played on the teaspoon by the chappy at the bar (or is it a salt cellar?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zDWXmb3Ozo
Thank You for this link! This version is sounds like our great melod-ian's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gecc7FbpI_8
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 09:09:42 PM by Miklos Nemeth »
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2010, 05:53:54 PM »

Search indicates it has not been posted before.. I hope. I might start by copying the backing played on the teaspoon by the chappy at the bar (or is it a salt cellar?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zDWXmb3Ozo
Thank You for this link! This version is exactly the same as our great melod-ian's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gecc7FbpI_8

Speed the Plough is a tune capaable of endless variations and there are significant differences between these two versions. For instances, listen carefully to the last couple of bars of the A music. There are also differences throughout the B music. Subtle they may be, but they are there.
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Bob in beautiful Wensleydale, Les Panards Dansants, Crook Morris and the Loose Knit Band.
Clément Guais 3-row D/G/acc.; Castagnari 1914 D/G; Karntnerland Steirische 3-row G/C/F; Ellis Pariselle 2.6-row D/G/acc.; Gabbanelli Compact 2-row D/G with lots of bling, pre-war Hohner Bb/F; Acadian one-row in D.

LJC

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Re: Help with the left hand
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2010, 10:27:32 PM »

Thanks will, I'm glad you've found it useful. It's still early days (only started it at the beginning of January) but there is some more content online now, and more set to be recorded this week.
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