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Author Topic: Michael Turners Jig  (Read 6976 times)

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John C

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Michael Turners Jig
« on: January 20, 2010, 11:04:01 PM »

Can someone tell me how many beats per minute you would use to play this jig or any other?

Thank you
John
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Lester

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 06:40:04 AM »

Can someone tell me how many beats per minute you would use to play this jig or any other?

Thank you
John


Since MT's jig is an English tune, in my experience, we don't tend to have target bpm. Mostly in the English "tradition" people play tunes at the speed they like to play them at or, more likely the concensus speed they are played at in the sessions they attend which can vary quite a bit from area to area. Seems to me that it is only the players of Irish music who are attached to bpm figures.

george garside

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 11:18:11 AM »

I agree with Lester.  I just play to the feet of the best dancer in the hall.

george (keep it simple) ;)
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 01:05:41 PM »

It'll depend what mood you're in!  I find most dance music is directly related to your pulse rate, so it helps if the band is as hepped up as the dancers.  Not wanting to revive the playing/drinking debate, but an alcoholic buzz tends to speed things up and the later soporific phase slows it down again.

I'm with George  - play to the best dancers feet.  not the fastest necessarily, but the one who looks comfortable and rythmic. 

Rob.
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John C

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 05:52:01 PM »

Thanks for the replies.

As I am a bit isolated from the tradition its very tempting to try and "get it right" by finding or making a definition what speed to play certain tunes.

Based on your comments, I'll just do what feels right and "keep it simple".

John


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Theo

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 06:32:38 PM »

Agree with all the other advice, but I would add one more thing.   When you have learned the tune and found a speed you like, it is worth practising at a faster speed.  Then when you drop back to your preferred speed your playing will be very secure because you will not be playing at the limit of what you are capable of.
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 06:40:37 PM »

Since I play Irish style B/C I tend to play at the speed of the session I play at.  However I'm not married to any BPM like some Irish players are.  However when alone I try to interpet the tune as I feel it should be interpeted and at what speed is most comfortable to me.  It's a trap to get into speeds except for what tradition may call for.  However Tradition is only a guide to the speed of a tune if you want it to be.  If you want to play a reel like it's a lament then more power to you.  IMHO.
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TomB-R

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 06:54:29 PM »

Can someone tell me how many beats per minute you would use to play this jig or any other?

Thank you
John


A good brisk walking pace, right and left to a bar, would often be about right!
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theSmoiler

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 12:05:09 AM »

Can someone tell me how many beats per minute you would use to play this jig or any other? Thank you, John

Since MT's jig is an English tune, in my experience, we don't tend to have target bpm. Mostly in the English "tradition" people play tunes at the speed they like to play them at or, more likely the concensus speed they are played at in the sessions they attend which can vary quite a bit from area to area. Seems to me that it is only the players of Irish music who are attached to bpm figures.
Not sure I entirely agree with this, Lester - most English traditional tunes are essentially dance tunes, and as such tend to have a preferred speed for the dance. I'm fairly sure, from my experience of when we toyed with having a band together, that Chris Partington, fiddler and researcher for the Village Music Project, has preferred bpm's for all the tunes he plays - I'll ask him this weekend re. Michael Turner's jig. If local sessions specialise in local Regional tunes, as my local one does, then they will have a preferred speed based on how the original musician in whose Manuscript they were found is likely to have played them for local dances IMO.

Diane
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Ziachmusi/Louise

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 06:24:24 AM »

Is Michael Turners Jig the same as Michael Turners waltz?
I've not heard of it and the abc tune finder didn't find it either.
If it's a different tune could someone post the abc / dots?

Louise
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Lester

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 08:39:16 AM »

Is Michael Turners Jig the same as Michael Turners waltz?
I've not heard of it and the abc tune finder didn't find it either.
If it's a different tune could someone post the abc / dots?

Louise

http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/pub-session-tunes/013144.HTM

Ziachmusi/Louise

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2010, 09:10:26 AM »

Thanks Lester

I'll give it a go but I'm not really up to jigs at the mo.

Louise :|||:
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LJC

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2010, 09:54:09 AM »

A jig is only playing groups of three - if you can play a waltz you can play a jig! Speed doesn't matter, its just a case of getting the notes right and enjoying the challenge of practicing.
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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2010, 11:23:27 AM »

They go "Duppity duppity" ;D

I'd add to the "practice quickly so that you can play slowly", "practice slowly so that you can play quickly" ;)
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Ziachmusi/Louise

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2010, 11:28:41 AM »

my limited musical knowledge is that a Jig needs an um pah um pah and a waltz an um pah pah or have i missed something?
Louise
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Bill the Farmer

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2010, 01:30:10 PM »

They go "Duppity duppity" ;D

Ah! Tickly bum notation! After all the talk of dots and ABC, it's nice to see someone get down to basics.

Michael Turners Jig goes:

Bum de bumpety bum de bum, de bum be bumpety, bumpety bumpety.
Bum de bumpety bum de bum, de bum be bumpety, bumpety bum:|
Bum, bum bum de bum, de bum, de bum, de tickly bum,
Bum, bum bum de bum de bum, de bum, de tickly bumpety:|  ;D
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LJC

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2010, 02:15:35 PM »

Certainly the basses are different for a jig and a waltz, and when you play them properly they DO have a very different feel. What I was getting at is that they are both based on groups of three. If you can count to three once in a bar you should be able to count to three twice!
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2010, 12:00:01 PM »

I played this this morning and it sounded very like "Bonny Lass", recorded by Flowers and Frolics in the '70s.   ???
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theSmoiler

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2010, 10:31:48 PM »

Can someone tell me how many beats per minute you would use to play this jig or any other? Thank you, John

I'm fairly sure, from my experience of when we toyed with having a band together, that Chris Partington, fiddler and researcher for the Village Music Project, has preferred bpm's for all the tunes he plays - I'll ask him this weekend re. Michael Turner's jig. If local sessions specialise in local Regional tunes, as my local one does, then they will have a preferred speed based on how the original musician in whose Manuscript they were found is likely to have played them for local dances IMO.

Diane
OK - I hope I'm quoting Chris P. right when I say this (as a great deal has happened since I asked him this on Friday on the way to a weekend away...) - to a certain extent, what Lester says may apply BUT the 'default' timing for a jig like this, he says, is 120 bpm. Yes, you might play it slightly differently depending on context eg who you are playing the dance for  - age-group, etc. - and he cited the example of possibly 105 bpm if you were playing a jig for a dance in the Jane Austen period! also, listening speed he says is generally slightly faster than dance tempo.

But, in answer to John's original question, then 120bpm would probably be a good and appropriate speed to aim to play this tune at.

And, my local session, of which the main contingent are Village Music Project collaborators playing English fiddles tunes from the manuscripts, does play the tunes as they feel the village musicians would have played them. This is likely to be the case, too, at sessions elsewhere where the main contingent are from the 'hardcore' of English traditional players - but of course may not be so at other sessions.

Diane
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Ollie

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2010, 10:37:49 PM »

And, my local session, of which the main contingent are Village Music Project collaborators playing English fiddles tunes from the manuscripts, does play the tunes as they feel the village musicians would have played them. This is likely to be the case, too, at sessions elsewhere where the main contingent are from the 'hardcore' of English traditional players - but of course may not be so at other sessions.


Sorry to go slightly off topic here, but, umm, what's the point in that?  ??? Music is a completely personal thing, everybody plays differently and has their own style which they bring to the tunes. I can see very little point in trying to play them as they were played 200 years ago.
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