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Author Topic: Michael Turners Jig  (Read 6975 times)

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Howard Jones

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2010, 01:36:25 PM »

Sorry to go slightly off topic here, but, umm, what's the point in that?  ??? Music is a completely personal thing, everybody plays differently and has their own style which they bring to the tunes. I can see very little point in trying to play them as they were played 200 years ago.
I can't speak for Diane's session, but my angle on this is:

These tunes were written for, or adapted for, dancing. That affects how you play them, and at what speed - change the tune and you change the dance (and vice versa).  Furthermore, they're still widely used for that - they're not just "session" tunes.  Since many of the people playing these tunes in sessions also play them for dancing, it's not surprising that this influences how they play them.

Secondly, if you're interested in the music as part of a social history and context then it's interesting to explore how the tunes might have been played when they were first composed, and how they developed over time.  It can also shed light on the tune itself. 

Of course if that doesn't float your boat, then you're entirely free to play the tune any way you like.  Similarly, if you only wish to use the tune for concert or session purposes, then you can take whatever liberties you like with it.

Ollie

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2010, 09:30:54 PM »

Yes, I get it from that angle, but I don't see the point in doing that at a session.
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michik

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2010, 10:28:52 PM »

And, my local session, of which the main contingent are Village Music Project collaborators playing English fiddles tunes from the manuscripts, does play the tunes as they feel the village musicians would have played them. This is likely to be the case, too, at sessions elsewhere where the main contingent are from the 'hardcore' of English traditional players - but of course may not be so at other sessions.

I think it is not possible to play like a "village musician" ... unless you are one yourself ... I think it's better to play a tune in your own way, not immitating something which cannot be achieved at all ...
On youtube there some really nice examples of real village musicians, mostly from rural regions in eastern europe (like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRiFBaR4ReE )
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 10:31:24 PM by michik »
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Howard Jones

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2010, 02:57:23 PM »

Yes, I get it from that angle, but I don't see the point in doing that at a session.

On the other hand, what's the point of playing it differently at a session?

It depends on the culture and the mood of the session.  Sometimes it's fun to take a tune and see just how far you can take it.  At other times it's better simply to get into the tune for its own sake.

Also, if you have playing for dancing at the back of your mind you're less likely to play too fast.

theSmoiler

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2010, 07:36:24 PM »

Thanks for the explanation to my posting, Howard - spot on (especially re. the speed - playing these tunes at breakneck speed at a session often just simply ruins the intrinsic beauty of the tune, when all the 'swing', for which they were written, and nuances of phrasing are lost).

And, to reply to Michik...we don't all live in towns and cities in the UK! it's pretty rural round here, and many of those to whom I allude are playing for local, often village dances, live in villages or at least bordering countryside and take their music to the local community by way of playing in the village pub or participation in village projects (such as Concert parties for the local History Society), and so are the village musicians of the current day IMO.

Diane

PS if Lester's link to Michael Turner's Jig is at 145bpm as it says, then 120bpm may sound a tad slow...I'm inclined to think that the Old Swan Band recorded it and play it faster, but I may be wrong
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 11:16:16 PM by theSmoiler »
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ganderbox

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2010, 09:38:02 PM »

PS if Lester's to Michael Turner's Jig is at 145bpm as it says, then 120bpm may sound a tad slow...I'm inclined to think that the Old Swan Band recorded it and play it faster, but I may be wrong

I just had a listen to the midi version on Lester's link. It would only let me play the 145bpm version, which struck me as rather slow. I checked it with my trusty metronome which confirmed it was actually about 95bpm. This is presumably because thay have counted a beat as a crotchet, whereas for jigs a beat is actually a dotted crotchet ie half as long again.
Their 175bpm version would thus be equivalent to about 120bpm, which is probably about the right speed for this sort of jig (which I'd describe as "steady").

ps This tune is in Raven's book of 1000 English Country dance Tunes under the name of The Merry month of May.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 09:57:03 PM by ganderbox »
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theSmoiler

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2010, 11:22:38 PM »

PS if Lester's to Michael Turner's Jig is at 145bpm as it says, then 120bpm may sound a tad slow...I'm inclined to think that the Old Swan Band recorded it and play it faster, but I may be wrong

I just had a listen to the midi version on Lester's link. It would only let me play the 145bpm version, which struck me as rather slow. I checked it with my trusty metronome which confirmed it was actually about 95bpm. This is presumably because thay have counted a beat as a crotchet, whereas for jigs a beat is actually a dotted crotchet ie half as long again.
Their 175bpm version would thus be equivalent to about 120bpm, which is probably about the right speed for this sort of jig (which I'd describe as "steady").


Aha, thanks for the metronome check, Pauline - that would it explain it! I thought that it was rather slow, and was waiting rather fearfully for a rush of people to come on here and say Chris P. was wrong, on it's account! (he rarely is...apparently, the latest ABC player version is set up to play all the midis of the Village Music Project tunes at the correct default speed, whereas I don't think my old version of ABC2Win does this.


Diane
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Hugh Taylor

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2010, 05:00:24 PM »

Just to keep the flag flying for tunes from the Lakes, this tune also exists by the name of the 'Month of May' in the Browne collection from Troutbeck.
Diane - Haven't seen you at the Lakeland Fiddlers session at the Hawkshead Brewery lately. Let me know when you next come up this way.
Hugh

X:30
T:Month of May. BF13.029
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=120
C:In hand "B"
S:MS13,Browne family,c1825,Lake District
R:.Jig
O:England
A:Lakes
N:* Not clear - could also be a badly drawn bar line. Cherri G.
Z:vmp.Cherri Graebe.
K:A major
E2|:A2A AGA|B2cd2e|f2e ecA|AGA BGE|!
A2A AGA|B2cd2e|1f2e edc|B2AG2A:|2f2e ede|"_NB"e2f g2a|!
|:BcBB2c|d2e cde|a2ea2e|dcB"^*"e3|!
BcB B2c|d2e cde|a2e efe|d2cB2A:|]
W:Bar 10 (e2fga) in ms. CGP
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theSmoiler

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Re: Michael Turners Jig
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2010, 11:28:32 PM »

Just to keep the flag flying for tunes from the Lakes, this tune also exists by the name of the 'Month of May' in the Browne collection from Troutbeck.
Diane - Haven't seen you at the Lakeland Fiddlers session at the Hawkshead Brewery lately. Let me know when you next come up this way.
Hugh

Dave Townsend has it as the 'Month of May' in Volume One of English Dance Music - but he doesn't give any provenance for any of the tunes in his books. Looking at the sleeve notes of 'Still Swanning' Rod attributes 'Michael Turner's Jig' to research done by Vic Gammon in Sussex. I see that Cherri has assigned the timing as 120 bpm on her transcripton for the VMP above.

Hughie, good to hear from you. I think I've only managed to get to Staveley once, unfortunately - in March last year (was it really that long ago?!), when I took some days off work. I suspect that this month's is tonight.....? Perhaps I will be able to get up again this March - if I can take some time off to finish the Leave year, or, I may be between jobs then.... :-\ Remind me nearer the time....

Diane
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