Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GbH]

I have to say I agree with Steve here - I don't find it that difficult. I mean the fingers and bellows have to be accurate, some nice little jumps, but the tune bobbles along nicely apart from the long scale down - that's the hardest bit for me! (perhaps I should try it again now cross-rowing?).

Yes - you should give it a try with cross rowing too.  Assuming that you're playing it in D, it'll be much easier to play, as those interval jumps can all be done on the pull if you use the G-row's A note.  Also, if your half row has a D-reversal, then you might consider using that to smooth out the triplet runs.

[Owen Woods]

That's because it's a very difficult tune on the box. My advice........ learn the fiddle. 

Really? I'd be interested to know what bits you, and Sarah, find difficult. I was thinking of giving it to a class of not-very-advanced learners this session.

I thought it would present some useful techniques to master, but I wouldn't have thought it was especially complicated - at least, not to play on a D row, at a very relaxed kind of tempo. Please set me right if I'm wrong.

Cross rowing on a D/G makes it not too difficult and also very satisfying to play.

[Howard Jones]

I play the whole eAf#AgAf# run in Harvest Home on the pull, using the A and f# from the G row, and 1st and 3rd fingers.  The 1st hovers over the A while the 3rd does the work of moving between the other buttons.  A simple rotation of the wrist alternates between the two fingers. As Ukebert says, very satisfying to play.  It's a longish stretch but shouldn't be too bad even if you have small hands - if necessary you could use the little finger instead of the 3rd.

I can't be bothered with the triplets, though, which strike me as an unnecessary decoration and which however well-played usually detract from the steady rhythm of the tune.

It's worth practising long stretches of the fingers - if you're not used to moving you hand like that your span may be a bit restricted, but if you're regularly reaching for widely spaced buttons it will improve.  Take it slowly and don't force anything.


 

[theSmoiler]

It is critical that your fingers learn to do it themselves (in practice the movement pattern gets wired into your cerebellum). It's actualy rather like touch typing.

Wasn't it Hughlings Jackson (a neuroscientist, or such like, from way back...) who famously stated, "The brain knows nothing of muscles only of movements" - I seem to remember this from Neuro- classes at college.

Irish music, which I started off learning to play, seems, from what I recall, to have more large jumps to 'unconnected' notes. Tunes which spring to mind are the B and C part of 'Austin Barrett's' or the B part of 'Jig of Slurs', to take just a couple of examples. Those bits certainly took some practice - but possibly give some advantage in helping learn where the spacings are between notes. By comparison, English music, IMO, doesn't seem to have so many of these jumps-in-space. Whereas, as one who plays, as LDT has noted before, with my hand round the back of the fingerboard (yes, I know it's supposed to be poor technique...but plenty who play a lot better than me do it, too!) I find I can reach most of the notes in Morpeth Rant with very little intrinsic movement of my hand - particularly with incorporating, as Theo says, the important row cros to get the G chord.

It probably helps having played violin previously, too - as it enables you to think in terms of a change in position ie shifting the whole hand up and down if the tune is going to span a large number of notes. But not necessary if there is only the odd note which is widely spaced.

Diane

[Stiamh]

Diane, talking of large jumps in Irish tunes, the biggest one I can think of at the moment comes in a tune known as Tom Bhetty's waltz, in which there is a jump of almost two octaves, from middle C up to top b. This is really "from one end to the other" and I found it a bit of a thrill the first few times I attempted it, and missed more than once! Luckily both notes are crotchets so you have a bit of time to get from one to the other.

As for Harvest Home, I find that when you play eAfA gAfA sequence all on the D row (no other options on C#/D anyway unless you want to make life harder by playing the f# on the pull) the bellows changes give you almost exactly the kind of swing I would get from playing the same passage on the fiddle with cross-bowing - I find this very satisfying. And incidentally it makes quick accompanying bass changes from A to D to A to G very easy on my box. So I wouldn't want to play the passage on the pull - even if I could on my box. 

The triplets oughtn't to distract from the rhythm, and if they do they should certainly be skipped. But even when they do work nicely, playing the downward run as pairs of quavers, or breaking the phrase into two halves, playing triplets for one and quavers for the other (and vice versa) gives IMO a welcome bit of relief and variety.

[Howard Jones]

I've observed that good players, on any instrument, seem to be able to manage complicated fingerings without apparently having to make big leaps, and while staying relaxed. 

Novice players are understandably anxious simply to get a finger down in the right place, by any means, whereas more experienced players understand the importance of getting the whole hand position right.  If you can do that, the fingering will follow. 

How to get that, or how to teach it, I'm at a bit of a loss to explain.  I think it just comes to you, like riding a bike.

[ladydetemps]

Ok...need some critique...help...advice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCwPxe6Ka5M
still struggling with the tune

[strad]

LDT- I've only being playing a couple more months than you but what has made the greatest difference to how I tackle a tune is trying NOT to use the same finger consecutively on different buttons of the same row. It stops the music being divided up into separate notes and makes it flow more. Sliding between rows doesn't take the finger as long so you don't get the same effect as moving the finger on the same row. Now I sit down with the music and the box and see what fingering seems easiest. Now I can even do it with tunes I already know or I don't have the music for. Hope this is a help - keep at it, There's an amazing difference now to your early youtube postings.

Nigel

[OwenG]

I've had a quick look at your clip and it looks like your right hand is operating as two separate parts. For some sections your index finger is doing all of the work and jumps between buttons and for other sections it takes a rest and the remaining three fingers take over. If I were you I would look at trying to get all of your fingers working together as a unit.

I'm at work and don't have access to a box here, but have had a quick think about how I would play the tune and have attached how I would finger the tune, which might help (1 = index finger; 2 = middle finger; 3 = ring finger). Note that I've not used my little finger at all as I think that you can play the tune and move around easily with three fingers. THe added benefit of this is that you are less likely to run out of digits.

Hope this helps

OG

[Howard Jones]

LDT, you seem to be trying to play the whole tune from the same hand position.  The second part is a lot higher than the first, and by keeping your hand in a position to reach these high notes you're having to stretch to reach the lower notes in the first part, and can only use your first finger on these.  As the others have pointed out, this means you are jumping around, which makes it sound choppy and slows you down. You should try to avoid playing consecutive notes with the same finger, for this reason.

The first part has some nice runs up and down if you place your little finger on the top D and first finger on the low D.  However when you come to the second part you'll have to move your hand so you can reach the higher notes, then shift it back when you return to the first part.

I suspect you're worried that if you move your hand then you'll get lost and won't know where you are on the keyboard.  This may happen to begin with, but if you think about the fingering, and in particular how you make the changes from the lower to the higher position and back again, then you should be OK.

[Theo]

The first part has some nice runs up and down if you place your little finger on the top D and first finger on the low D.  However when you come to the second part you'll have to move your hand so you can reach the higher notes, then shift it back when you return to the first part.

Howard has put his finger exactly on the button here.  What I would add is that an important part of making it work in practice is to plan when to make the shift of hand position.  Usually there are advantages in moving had position before you actually have to.  Try to find a repeated note, or a long note or some other convenient point to swap hand position a few notes before you run out of fingers.