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[Andy Next Tune]

Trial and error... but it requires a good ear (which Derek obviously has) to know what sounds wrong and what sounds right, to "hear" in your head very clearly and unshakingly what you are expecting and to experiment till you've found it. Or to try things (e.g. chords) at random and know immediately when you've hit on a good'un...

Melodeons are particularly suited to this instinctive approach, I suspect.

100% with Derek on this, although I'm definitely following a long way behind! My challenge is remembering that note or chord that sounded right when I play the same phrase next time through.
I guess its down to the P word again.

Andy

[Rob2Hook]

The dancers seem to forget that a practice is also a practice for the musos!  DTN goes wandering into the twilight zone; harmonies, counterpoints and syncopation.  Sometimes we try to follow along, other times our role is to shut our eyes and concentrate on holding the original tune against which Derek's looking to contrast.  Most times when we dance out, we are already used to the excursions from the norm.

I can't do what he does.  To each his own - someone has to plod along with the basic tune!

Rob.

[juker]

Wow, between this and the 'learning by ear' thread I am thinking that maybe I am not cut out for this instrument I would love to be able to play triplets and listen to tunes and work them out without the black dots but simply don't think I can do it. Indeed it was the technical demands of playing the piano that put me off progressing with that (which I don't regret, no one's fault but mine ) Maybe the shaky egg is to be my instrument!

[Chris Ryall]

just do triplets (and nothing but triplets) for 20 minutes, about 3 evenings running, and you'll find you'll be very 'passable' at them. It's basically a trick. Their use then comes naturally, with experience and experiment.

Under no circumstances should a real musician consider getting a shakey egg 

[zubz]

Under no circumstances should a real musician consider getting a shakey egg 

Hear hear! 
(At least not as their only musical outlet.)

This should be an inspiring and motivating thread, not a catalyst for resignation.   

[Lester]

Under no circumstances should a real musician consider getting a shakey egg  

Hear hear! 

Oi! Both of you! outside!

I happen to have played an exquisite good shakey egg backing track to Track 11 - Sam Jones on Aldbury Morris' highly influential second album After the Brawl was Over

[juker]

I do a decent shaky egg too - I have my talents!

[ladydetemps]

id probably fail at shaky egg

[Sandy]

Do we have the makings of a shakey egg orchestra  

[Andy Simpson]

id probably fail at shaky egg

You'll fail at all sorts of things with that kind of attitude...

[ladydetemps]

see I can't even get the right attitude.

[nfldbox]

as thread drifts go, the "shaky egg" has been more entertaining than many.

[juker]

Righto, brief period of self pity has passed, forget the 'oeufs'! I'm back on the triplet practise.

[Owen Woods]

Wow, between this and the 'learning by ear' thread I am thinking that maybe I am not cut out for this instrument I would love to be able to play triplets and listen to tunes and work them out without the black dots but simply don't think I can do it. Indeed it was the technical demands of playing the piano that put me off progressing with that (which I don't regret, no one's fault but mine ) Maybe the shaky egg is to be my instrument!

Don't be ridiculous, triplets are fairly unnecessary but useful and learning by ear is something that you get good at over time. Neither are essential to being a good box player

[Chris Ryall]

Righto, brief period of self pity has passed, forget the 'oeufs'! I'm back on the triplet practise.

You perhaps miss my little joke - Irish - also Breton - and (I assume) Quebecois boxists play  three, - one note is not 'enough'.  And shakey is '!! Seems my missed career in comedy has been no great loss to the Nation

I think Ukebert is quite right. Triplets aren't in any way fundamental to play and even Solid Irish can (I an told!) be played without them. Like cuts, lead notes and trills they are useful ornaments. You learn the trick and then put it in where it seems to do good. As you progess they'll usually tighten up and be 'better placed', but there's real work to be put in getiing them started. FWIW I only seem to have incorporated the lead note into my style. As it happens half of my trip to Sullfolk next weekend will be to make progress on the other diddles.  

I'd say that 'learning by ear' is a paticularly useful skill - but endless discussion here has established that it's something some have got and others haven't. Though I'd say it is learnable.  My own bete noire is learning from dots. Again something well learnable but I've never mastered it.

[juker]

Righto, brief period of self pity has passed, forget the 'oeufs'! I'm back on the triplet practise.

"You perhaps miss my little joke"  Haha! no perhaps about it! I totally missed it. Thanks for the explanation 

[Owen Woods]

I think Ukebert is quite right. Triplets aren't in any way fundamental to play and even Solid Irish can (I an told!) be played without them. Like cuts, lead notes and trills they are useful ornaments. You learn the trick and then put it in where it seems to do good. As you progess they'll usually tighten up and be 'better placed', but there's real work to be put in getiing them started. FWIW I only seem to have incorporated the lead note into my style. As it happens half of my trip to Sullfolk next weekend will be to make progress on the other diddles.  

I'm not sure what lead notes are

I have never really thought about ornaments, as I've mostly played either as a classically trained musician (when I first started) or for dance, where you've got to be careful with ornaments to make sure that they don't mask the important bits of the rhythm. Less is more and so on. So some things have just come naturally, but there are some effects which are really very effective that I haven't tried at all. Squeezy gave me a great one at his workshop in Sidmouth, doing a "mordent", if I may butcher the ornament, but to the fifth above, i.e. when in D then play "DAD", with the same rhythm as a triplet. It is easy to do and adds more emphasis and depth to the tune without detracting from the clarity.

[Stiamh]

Triplets aren't in any way fundamental to play and even Solid Irish can (I am told!) be played without them.

Triplets of course meaning single-note triplets. (I prefer the Irish fiddler's term, treble, for this device, which neatly avoids confusion with other sorts of triplets, which are used in pretty much every style of box playing as far as I can hear, and also sidesteps the fact that musically what we are talking about mostly aren't triplets at all).

Anyway you're quite correct Chris, single-note triplets are not in any way essential in good Irish box playing. They are a fairly recent development, too. Their current popularity must be down to Jackie Daly's perfecting them (even if Jackie will point out that Tony McMahon was doing them before he was). But even Jackie is turned off by the extent to which they dominate the playing of some younger box - and concertina - players.

But lots of other younger players use them little or not at all, and most of the older ones who learned in the pre-Daly era have never adopted them, with some exceptions such as Bobby Gardiner.

[juker]

These videos are fantastic Derek, thanks  very much 

[Howard Jones]

The point about triplets, ornaments, etc is that they are just decorations to the tune.  If they interfere with the rhythm of the dance, then you're doing something wrong. 

They need to be used with taste and discernment - if you play the same decoration at the same point of the tune every time it quickly ceases to be a decoration and becomes an annoyance.  Only use them where they add something.