Melodeon.net Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to the new melodeon.net forum

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing  (Read 7378 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

John C

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« on: May 08, 2010, 05:13:37 PM »

I've been playing an ADG Corona but mostly playing on the DG rows.   I bought More Maggies Melodeon to extend my practice sessions and the book has been really helpful and useful.   I've bought DVDs in the past and haven't felt they were worth the bother but this book and CD is really worth every penny.

The book is about DG cross rowing but as a result of my practice I've now started crossing the three rows (ADG) and its really opened up the instrument for me.   Learning the 3 row has really been like peeling an onion.   One layer after another and a lot of tears when you realise there something else to know or practice.

I admit to getting confused as I can no longer play some of the tunes I thought I had in the bag and I can't seem to leave tunes alone as I'm constantly trying different fingering combinations.

I certainly can't say I've been bored!

John
 
Logged
Saltarelle Laurentide GCF, Saltarelle Cheviot ADG

TonyRussellDavis

  • Tony Russell Davis (Black Sheep Tone/BLT)
  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 192
  • Mandos'n'guitars'n'boxes'n'pipes'n'stuff.
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 11:56:08 AM »

I'm not a quad/quint player (someday I must try one) but am I right that the cross-row fingering patterns you learn on D/G rows can be applied to the A/D rows? (obviously coming out in a different key) BLT.
Logged
Call if you're ever in North Yorkshire.

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 03:07:23 PM »

 in essence yes, but 'normal' cross rowing on a ADG ;box will not make it chromatic , this only being possible by bringing in the other (than F#C#G#) accidentals on chinmost buttons which don't fit in with the flow so to speak. if logical chromasticity is required  a trichord is more or less the same  size  weight as a corona


george
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

ganderbox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 734
  • Melodeons from Brittany, Italy, Germany* and Leeds
    • www.choughedtobits.co.uk
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 03:46:44 PM »


I admit to getting confused as I can no longer play some of the tunes I thought I had in the bag and I can't seem to leave tunes alone as I'm constantly trying different fingering combinations.

John
 

This is the sort of thing that happened to me when I bought my Dony. Partly because of it being a 2.5 row and partly because it was a much bigger box than I was used to, I found myself playing a tune and suddenly confusing myself by putting in bits of cross-row fingerings where I never had before. It was quite alarming as I could never predict when this would happen, and I didn't play it out in public for months because I couldn't trust myself to play even familiar tunes without getting lost halfway through.

I sometimes think that the number of fingering choices is partly the reason why it seems to take longer to learn some tunes well enough to play them reliably. The more options there are, the more decisions you have to make, and the greater the chance of tripping yourself up. 
Logged
Pauline from Cornwall

*  including a customised Hohner Club from Cornwall (and very nice it is too!).

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 04:55:27 PM »

the confusion tends to be minimised ( although not eliminated completely!) when you have programmed all the 'options' into the auto pilot so that you can intuitively go for the best available option for the particuloar bit of a particular tune.  I think until then the problem is that whilst playing a tune at anything like normal speed there is no time to 'think things through'.  I strongly recommend playing the same tune in all available keys helps the process.

george  ( who does everything well  including superb cockups such as right fingering -wrong buttons and playing in one ;key on treble and another on bass!, not to mention sticking the wrong B part to many a tune!)
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

nemethmik

  • Guest
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 06:14:24 PM »

There are lots of useful 3-row shapes, especially involving the pull D on the A-row of course.
Very interesting discussion and most comments are applicable to my limited experience in my learning efforts.
I am learning and practicing one-row, B/C (semitone), two-row, 2.5-row Club, three row ADG Compadre, three-row with gleichton (Steiriesche) and chromatic button accordion (CBA).
(1) I learn much faster tunes on the one row diatonic (without cross fingering), B/C and the CBA because there is only one button per note, and the only job is to invent the optimal fingering.
(2) Learning a tune with cross fingering on the 2.5 and 3-row quint-tuned diatonic boxes is far the most challenging because of the myriads of key and fingering combination that should match the available basses. For me the only way is to learn from (mostly Club-system and Steirische) tunebooks or experienced instructors (for example jb). Even when an instructional video (or griffschrift) is available, a long practicing process and terribly slow progress is not avoidable. I tried to invent an easy fingering for Mike Turner's Waltz on 2.5 Club smooth way by minimizing the number of bellows direction changes and I failed and gave up after two days of struggling. On the other hand I've learned the tune in an hour playing only on one row (push-pull).
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 06:27:08 AM by Miklos Nemeth »
Logged

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 06:31:41 PM »

I am learning and practicing one-row, B/C (semitone), two-row, 2.5-row Club, three row ADG Compadre, three-row with gleichton and chromatic button accordion (CBA).

 ??? And there I was, thinking John (the OP) was making life hard for himself learning and practising 2-row, 3-row and PA at the same time.

Are you trying to make sure you don't get too good at any of these systems?   >:E

george garside

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5401
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 06:41:42 PM »

Quote from: Miklos 

 Are you trying to make sure you don't get too good at any of these systems?   >:E
[/quote

exactly what I was thinking

george ;)
Logged
author of DG tutor book "DG Melodeon a Crash Course for Beginners".

nemethmik

  • Guest
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 08:22:26 PM »

Are you trying to make sure you don't get too good at any of these systems?
(:)
I am looking for the best sytem, and I love trying them; I am sure I never going to be a decent player; learning and playing is (the) fun. I have a dozen kinds of bagpipes and I can play a couple of tunes on all of them. Anyhow, I found that it really does not matter what accordion system I practice, it will help my genaral (accordion) playing skills; if I have any.
Logged

Stiamh

  • Old grey C#/D pest
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3538
    • Packie Manus Byrne
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 10:55:57 PM »

Fair enough, Miklos. Having fun is what counts, after all.

John C

  • Regular debater
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 124
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 01:38:24 AM »

Thanks for all the comments, very interesting to hear others experiences.

I agree that trying to learn several systems at once can by confusing and demanding.   The problem is that you cannot possibly know whats involved in each instrument until you try them out.  I don't think you can know whats involved without having an instrument and making some serious effort.

When I started to play the melodeon I thought it was easy to play and was quite impressed with myself.  Over time I heard and understood more and more what others were playing on various CDs.   Suddenly it wasn't as easy as I thought and I realised I was only playing less than half of what the instrument can do.   I like the comment about 3 rows and the different shapes, especially the D on the pull (on the A row) and E on the push, which is something I'm working on.

I have some experience with The Recorder family which is made up of several different size instruments, some in C (Soprano and Tenor) and some in F (Alto and Sopranino).   Also the Bass.    That means you need to react immediately when you see a written note and know which fingering to use to play the instrument at hand.   I like to think some of those skill are transferable to the Melodeon.  

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having fun trying different instruments (Thanks Miklos).   I sometimes get more pleasure trying different options and instruments than playing tunes.  

As I said before, I'm certainly Not bored.

John
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 02:06:59 AM by John »
Logged
Saltarelle Laurentide GCF, Saltarelle Cheviot ADG

Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 721
  • Not quite enough melodeons....
    • Cats Claw
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 09:35:45 AM »

  Suddenly it wasn't as easy as I thought and I realised I was only playing less than half of what the instrument can do.   

Hmm....for some of us, playing half of what the instrument can do is a distant goal....but at least having FUN is achievable now!

Cheers,
Guy
Logged
Guy, in South Wales

Cats Claw, http://www.cats-claw.co.uk

nemethmik

  • Guest
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 10:15:24 AM »

I sometimes get more pleasure trying different options and instruments than playing tunes.  
Same here. I'd say I am a newbie enthusiast and collector of melodeons rather than determined musician to become a decent/proficient/established melodeon player.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:37:54 AM by Miklos Nemeth »
Logged

xgx

  • Bagpipes & Musette Boxes... and Banjos, luv 'em!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1096
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 10:24:16 AM »

 ;D another one here ... dedicated pipes and boxes nut.... can't play either genre that well but I do enjoy trying  8)

after a decade or three throttling boxes I can't claim to be a newbie though Miki  ;D
Logged
Graham

 N Cambs/S Lincs - UK   :|glug + :|glug:|||: = :|bl

squeeziemoore

  • New Starter
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 04:00:44 PM »

As co-author of the afore-mentioned book and CD, it's great to see all this discussion. It's took me nearly 30 years of playing to get to the point where I really felt I could mange to put down on paper what I'd learnt, cos there's so much more to even the 2 Row than you realise when you first pick it up. Still learning as I go along, but hopefully the books have provided a few shortcuts for people that I certainly didn't have all that time ago  ;D, "FUN" is the operative word. There's no point in playing if you don't have lots and lots. Cheers.xx
Logged

HallelujahAl

  • Guest
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2010, 04:57:39 PM »

Quote
It's took me nearly 30 years of playing to get to the point where I really felt I could mange to put down on paper what I'd learnt,

Just want to say Maggie, that your 1st book was the one that got me going on D/G melodeon - so very many thanks!
AL
Logged

squeeziemoore

  • New Starter
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2010, 08:34:55 PM »

That's really great Al. x
Logged

rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4734
  • Windjammer
    • Wesson Accordions
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2010, 10:48:43 PM »

Hellooooooooooo Maggie and welcome to the MAD house.
Logged
Rees Wesson (accordion builder and mechanic)
Gungrog, Welshpool, Wales, UK
www.melodeons.com

Steve_freereeder

  • Content Manager
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7511
  • MAD is inevitable. Keep Calm and Carry On
    • Lizzie Dripping
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2010, 10:57:44 PM »

Ey-up Maggie....
Wot Rees said - cor not 'alf.
Logged
Steve
Sheffield, UK.
www.lizziedripping.org.uk

Anahata

  • This mind intentionally left blank
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6359
  • Oakwood D/G, C/F Club, 1-rows in C,D,G
    • Treewind Music
Re: More Maggies Melodeon - Cross rowing
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2010, 12:34:35 AM »

And hello from me too - see you're among friends here!

Logged
I'm a melodeon player. What's your excuse?
Music recording and web hosting: www.treewind.co.uk
Mary Humphreys and Anahata: www.maryanahata.co.uk
Ceilidh band: www.barleycoteband.co.uk
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 


Melodeon.net - (c) Theo Gibb; Clive Williams 2010. The access and use of this website and forum featuring these terms and conditions constitutes your acceptance of these terms and conditions.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal