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[ladydetemps]

(Thought i'd start anew topic than drifting a thread which is a new concept for some people lol!)
Anyway I really struggle to understand chords. Itslike a different language and no matter how hard i try i can't put a letter to a button. So if i'm told a chord has a bunch of notes in it I'm clueless. It's all gobbledygook to me.
rant over. im gona go sulk in the corner.

[Chris Ryall]

Chords and scales are the same thing and this is fundamental to understanding them. Take the G scale over two octaves   G  A  B  C  D  E  F#  G  A  B  C  D  E  F#  G The "three chord trick" in key of G - which is built into your right end - is chords of  G, C and D7.  To find them you simply go to the requisite note in the scale you are using and count up taking alternate notes. In folk music we generally use only the first three such notes, but '7' chords need another note  - for self-evident technical reasons   Start on G:    G1st  B3rd  D5th  = "G chord"   Start on C:    C1st  E3rd  G5th = "C chord"   Start on D:    D1st  F#3rd  A5th  C7th   = "D7 chord"

The counting also works for 'related minor' chords - try it - A  C  E  D = Am7. The only wrinkle then is that chords names are always relative to the note letter at the front.  In this case our C is within the A minor scale rather than A major  - so we call it "A minor 7"

[Marje]

If the letters scare you, you don't have to use them much.  You just need to know which is the G row and which is the D row, if you're playing a D/G box.

I was taught tonic sol-fa (do re mi) at school and often think in terms of this on melodeon, rather than letter names, because this works whichever key you're playing in.

The chord keys are the upper one of each pair of basses. The other bass keys (fundamentals) are single notes. The reason the chords sound janglier and fuzzier than the single note keys is that they consist of several notes at once, but believe me, you don't need to know what they all are, not until you're ready, and you can play without knowing.

Guitar players sometime talk about chords as I,IV, V, referring to the keynote of each chord relative to the key of the tune. Again, this will work for any key.

To make it even simpler, you could even think of the chords as 1,2,3 (assuming for the moment that you're sticking to 3 chords). So when you're playing in G, your 1 chord is G, your 2 chord is C (which you get when you move across to the other row of bass buttons) and the 3 chord is D, which you get when you go back to the G buttons and pull instead of push.

To get the same chord pattern when you're playing on the D row, you have to change what you do for the 2 chord, and cross rows to push on the G buttons. Then for the 3 chord, you pull on the D buttons to get a chord of A.

Is that making any sense? I don't think I've ever tried to explain it to anyone before, it's a kind of intuitive thing. You are probably doing most of this already and know it in your ears and in your fingers even if you can't quite get your head round it. If it does make sense, then you don't need to know the chord letter-names in order to play them. What matters is getting the right chords at the right time in the tune.

Don't let the theory put you off - plenty of good players couldn't tell you the name of the chords and notes they're playing at any time. The best ones probably can, but you can think about that later on.

[Chris Ryall]

To make it even simpler ..

I'd council against alternative numbering of the chords in any scale. It brings immediate confusion with the standard 'Nashville' numbering system - which is as you describe for guitarists.  For me the chords in G are ...

  1.G   2.Am   3.Bm   4.C   5.D7   6.Em  

That last chord isn't much use in folk music. The ones for a G folk tune usually G, Em, C, and D7.  All these four are playable on both ends.

[Howard Jones]

A chord is simply several notes played at once.  If you're playing an instrument like guitar or piano you may* need to know which notes go into a particular chord, but on the melodeon they're pre-set (let's not think about right-hand chords for now).  All you have to know is that a pair of LH buttons makes a C major chord (for example) without needing to know that the notes are C, E and G.

On your anglo, however, which has no pre-set chords, then you do have to think about building chords out of individual notes, so it's helpful to understand the theory.

* I say "may", because when I started learning guitar I learned the chords as fingering positions rather than as notes.  On concertina, I mostly build up chords by trial and error.  Whilst I now know something about the theory, when I'm playing guitar and concertina I still think of chords in terms of fingering patterns rather than musical notes.  When I'm playing melodeon I just think about the buttons.

My point is that while it's useful to understand the theory of what notes go into a chord, so far as melodeon is concerned you don't really need to (although it would be worth learning about it for your concertina playing)

[TonyRussellDavis]

What you've attributed to the "guitar players" is generally called the Nashville numbers system and is pretty universal for session players in recording studios. By calling the first note in the scale = "I" and then numbering up the rest of the diatonic scale in roman numerals (I - VII) you can name any note, or chord based on any note, by the number. Then, if the leader decides to change the key, you still use the same numbers on your arrangement, but the scale is based on a different root. The "three chord trick" then is shown as - "I, IV, V7". The "7" means then the V chord is a "seventh"; but enough of that unless you want some theory.
The numbers system is very useful as an alternative to using the letters, which change with each key. BLT.

[LJC]

With a chord chart, why does it even matter what the notes are? It's not a problem to learn a tune which is a certain string of notes. Playing a chord is just a string of notes at the same time. Learn the shape and the name and it doesn't matter that right hand Em chord is the notes EGB, it just becomes buttons 345, on the pull, on the D row. Commit the shape to memory/muscle memory, forget the notes, and any time an Em crops up, whack it in.

[george garside]

there is a lot to be said for just experimenting with combinations of buttons (treble) untill you get a combination that sounds nice- no need to use any theory or know names of notes or chords. this system can include combinations of treble & bass buttons. when learned this way the 'good' combinations tend to stick in the auto pilot mechanism & so can be played instinctively/intuitively to 'thicken up' any tune!

george

[Theo]

right hand Em chord is the notes EGB, it just becomes buttons 345, on the pull, on the D row. Commit the shape to memory/muscle memory, forget the notes, and any time an Em crops up, whack it in.

There is a neat trick shown to me originally by Roger Watson which suddenly opened up a whole range of chord playing on the right hand. It is easy to demonstrate, but not so easy to explain in words.  No theory is required! 

The essence is that you place a finger on button 3 on the D row and keep it there.  That button acts as a pivot so keep that finger there. 
1 press that and the next two buttons up the D row, push gives you D pull give Em
2 pivot you finger round the D/E button so the other two fingers end up on button 3 and 4 on the G row, now push for G, pull for Am. 
3 move one finger only from button 3 on the G row to button 4 on the D row push gives Bm pull gives C.   

Things to note:

• because one finger stays planted on the same button it is easy to learn the remaining positions by feel
• This should bet you started, if you want to go further then:
• note the triangular shape made by the buttons in 2 and 3 try the same shape elsewhere and you can make some other useful chords

[Chris Ryall]

George and Theo speak much wisdom. When I first experimented with chording that's more or less what I did. It was later when I mugged up the intimate relation of chords and scales that I realised that triangle of fingers was actually a 'C' chord, and that other one 'A minor'. and also why they seemed interchangeable.  And although I've slowly got to be able to name the notes by button - I still remember my chords as shapes.

I'd still heartily recommend making your chords in this way on the right end though - you have so much more control - and the spin off of easy 'variations' for your tunes.

[Andy Next Tune]

Thanks Theo - that will help the fingers remember, even if the brain can't name it!

Andy

[OldDog]

Hi,
Is there any general rule of thumb as to where and when a right-hand chord is to be used? I'm new to the melodeon and am finally getting comfortable with  knowing where the Oom and the Pah go on the left side, but haven't been able to figure out where the melody side chords go, or don't go - even just two-note chords (they're not chords but intervals, I think.)

Please keep it simple for the musically untrained (me).

Thanks for your help,
Paul N.
Tonawanda, NY

[Ollie]

I think the simple answer to that question, Paul, is whenever you feel like it! 

[george garside]

sspot on Ollie.  A  simple way to start is to play 2 note chords ?diads to them who know about such things,and just adding a bit of thickening to those of us who don't!   ON athe push any combination of notes on the same row will harm,onise aand on the pull most will ( you soon learn which ones don't by just trying different combinations). 

The next ingredient is to be  aware of which finger is playing the 'tune note' at any particular time - you then have 3 spare fingers to play other note(s) to make your chord or thicken the tune up a bit.  For starters just try playing the buttton above or below the tune note at the same time as the tune note, - it can sometimes sound nicer to start the 2nd note slightly after the tune note & finish it slightly before the end of the tune note.

Also remember that ( unless the box has been re arranged) notes repeat every 4th button on the push & every 5th button on the pull.  This makes playing 'in octaves very easy as the first & little finger are hovering over 2 of the saame note an octave apart.  This can be developed so that all 3 'spare fingers are playing additional notes to form a chord & in so doing perhaps using notes from both rows.

another useful variation is to use the saame fingering as for a chord but instead of playing ,say, 2 notes together play the tune note and split the second note (s)to provide a bit of right hand rhythm.

Best start with a slow tune eg waltz to get the hang of it

george

 

[nemethmik]

Unfortunately, there are no tutor books about multi-voice playing for English melodeon, neither Dave Mallinson nor Maggie Moore published an (advanced) volume to learn playing chords. That's the reason I bought tutor books (in German) for Club system and Steirische: chords.
Maybe the Yann Dour tutor book is applicable, I do not have one
http://www.editions-caruhel.com/diatonic-accordion/26_4_/fingering-chart-Diatonic-accordion-tutor.-Vol.3-:-Accompaniment.html

[Steve_freereeder]

Unfortunately, there are no tutor books about multi-voice playing for English melodeon, neither Dave Mallinson nor Maggie Moore published an (advanced) volume to learn playing chords. That's the reason I bought tutor books (in German) for Club system and Steirische: chords.
Maybe the Yann Dour tutor book is applicable, I do not have one
http://www.editions-caruhel.com/diatonic-accordion/26_4_/fingering-chart-Diatonic-accordion-tutor.-Vol.3-:-Accompaniment.html

You don't need a tutor book for this.
George's reply is spot on. Just experiment. And to paraphrase Tony Hall (an absolute master of RH chords and countermelody), 'just poke about a bit [i.e. with your fingers on the RH buttons]. If it sounds OK then use it'.

If you really want to know which buttons produce specific chords, then this guide here is pretty good.

[nemethmik]

You don't need a tutor book for this.

Hmm, do/did tutor book writers for Steirische and Club system accordions know this?
 

[george garside]

Tony Hall is indeed brilliant and will be at Whitby Folk week for the full week  - reason enough to head for Whitby!  Brian peters, John Kirkpatick , Pete Coe & maybe other prominent box players will also be there

george

[Anahata]

You don't need a tutor book for this.

Hmm, do/did tutor book writers for Steirische and Club system accordions know this? 

Playing harmony in parallel with the tune (i.e. RH chords of a sort)  seems to be very much part of the Steirische style, so that would be included in a Steirische tutor almost right from the start.

[oggiesnr]

This is the crib sheet that I've used in sorting out chords for the bandoneon. http://www.michael-thomas.com/music/class/chords_notesinchords.htm.

If you explore his site there are some other useful cribs for people like me with less music theory knowledge than I'd like.

Steve