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Author Topic: Saltarelle  (Read 27220 times)

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melodeon

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2010, 01:27:43 AM »

To be more exacting ( picking the fly specs out of the pepper) 
Saltarelles are not French if by French we mean made in France.
Saltarelles are not "made" in France.
Serenelinni was one of the original makers of Saltarelle... compare their model 233 with the Nuage
Then, Dino Baffetti.
It is also rumoured Mengascini was in  there for some models..
and ( I heard this second hand but form a reliable source) Roger Watson owned a Saltarelle that was
purported to have been made by Castagnari. I have no way of confirming this, but if anyone here knows Roger( I have only
spoken with him by phone , once, and not about the Saltarelle but about Van der Leeuws which he called perpetual works in progress)
perhaps you might speak to him about this.


Saltarelles history then according to Y'all is:
Boxes of unknown or unconfirmed origin
Spotty if not shoddy quality of materials and workmanship
Varying reed quality
Bells and whistles instead of quality control
Uncertain dealer quality
Overpriced
Unresponsive distributor. ie George Roux
Variable playabilty, tone and volume.
Older may be better,
Poor resale
Famous people get better ones than you get.
Better if retuned and refitted, but this seems to be at the ownes expense.

The mystery here is: how do they stay in busines.. perhaps they followed the business
model of the American marketed Gabbanellis. Seems to work for them. Modest quality, mystery origin, myth builder,
overpriced, unresponsive sometimes unpleasant principal. Promoted by famous players.


Loffet accordions, since they have been mentioned.
If Brittany is France ,then "some" of Loffet's accordions are  made in France/Brittany
However, many of his accordeons are of Italian origin and rebranded.
I have not heard much negative about the quality of construction, some like them, some don't
and this can also be said of Castaganari or Hohner.


French cars.. I like French cars, I have owned French cars, I have worked on French cars and
find them no less or more a problem than Italian or Yugoslavian cars.
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LDbosca

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2010, 10:39:21 AM »

Saltarelles history then according to Y'all is:
Boxes of unknown or unconfirmed origin
Spotty if not shoddy quality of materials and workmanship
Varying reed quality
Bells and whistles instead of quality control
Uncertain dealer quality
Overpriced
Unresponsive distributor. ie George Roux
Variable playabilty, tone and volume.
Older may be better,
Poor resale
Famous people get better ones than you get.
Better if retuned and refitted, but this seems to be at the ownes expense.
accordions, since they have been mentioned.


I can't defend their lack of consistency, I've played a few rubbish Saltarelle Nuages, but my Irish Boube (bout 8 or 9 years old I'd say) is better than any Castagnari I've played and it always gets compliments on its sound. And that's not just misplaced owner's pride. It seems to me that Saltarelle have the makings of a great box if they'd tighten up their operation.

Oh, and the black paint that comes off in a few months on some models really annoys me! Imagine that happened on your new car!

Fidjit

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 11:28:22 AM »

I drive a Renault Senic II and play (amongst others) a Saltarelle Connemara II. Enjoy both. I can, and do occasionally sleep in the car. I went to Besacon to meet George Roux at his house before investing in a Duna A/D/G three row. Which I latter exchanged for the Connemara II. In his house he has an assortment of boxes. Which I was able to try out, before ordering the Duna. Nice chap. Nice place. Whilst we were there, there was an Earth Quake (might have been my playing) The bed shook during our siesta !

Jura area of France has some very nice wines too. They don't make enough to export ( Not to Sweden anyway)  :|glug
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 11:33:51 AM by Fidjit »
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melodeon

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 02:55:18 PM »

I spoke with George Roux by phone a few years back. He was very pleasant and accomodating, but we did not exchange money.
Mostly because he could not would not confirm the reed quality/maker. 

I would like to clarify my motivation for the thread, it was not to slag Saltarelle. I was hoping for a different response than
we got with a similar topic a while ago.   
I was seriously considering getting one, mind you not through a US Player/Dealer, but through a more reliable source.
I am very careful when spending money. I don't need a bargain, just a good value. I don't think Saltarelle is it.
The "cons" list is so great it is a deterrent to purchance... I am simply not a gambler...

Thanks for all the responses.
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2010, 05:12:50 PM »


I can't quite understand how/why these get to market in such rough and ready order. At lest the French (i.e. home market) dealers/agents (Laurent Jarry for one) seem to stress pre-prep as de rigeur...


I think you may have hit the nail on the head. (seeking hammer emoticon!)

As a dealer/importer, I cannot ever recall purchasing a brand new instrument for a customer which didn't require (imho) some pre-sale adjustments prior to delivery. And that applies equally to both German/Chinese and Italian made instruments. I consider this to be part of the service I offer.

In a perfect world, yes, you should expect every instrument that leaves the factory to be perfect; but a perfect world it ain't....

Who knows how long an instrument has been sitting on the factory shelf (or has even fallen off the factory shelf!), what sort of treatment it has had in transit, and whether the requested specifications have lost something in translation.

So while there *might* be room for improvement at the factory level, maybe *some* dealers are not helping the problem by failing to do pre-sale checks/adjustments.

And perhaps the end user should also take a bit of responsibility by insisting on this being done.

Of course, if you buy factory direct, you're on your own.... >:E >:E >:E

MC




« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 05:16:13 PM by Malcolm Clapp »
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Owen Woods

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2010, 05:21:38 PM »

I spoke with George Roux by phone a few years back. He was very pleasant and accomodating, but we did not exchange money.
Mostly because he could not would not confirm the reed quality/maker. 

I would like to clarify my motivation for the thread, it was not to slag Saltarelle. I was hoping for a different response than
we got with a similar topic a while ago.   
I was seriously considering getting one, mind you not through a US Player/Dealer, but through a more reliable source.
I am very careful when spending money. I don't need a bargain, just a good value. I don't think Saltarelle is it.
The "cons" list is so great it is a deterrent to purchance... I am simply not a gambler...

Thanks for all the responses.

I think that I would agree with this. Best to buy second hand, where you can play the box and assess it for yourself - and for that matter know that it has been set up properly.

I think it will be a while before I can buy a brand new box though ;)
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Lars

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2010, 07:24:04 PM »

I too have had a phone conversation with G. Roux a few years back - very accomodating and pleasant despite the language barriers.

Mind you - I've also seen not-so-great Paolo Sopranis, Baldoni-Bartolis and castagnaris. I think the main reason Saltarelle are able to stay in business is that despite the problems, there's a whole lot of very very nice Saltarelle boxes around! The trip to a tuner is ALWAYS a good first option when getting a new box you're not satisfied with. When I get a new (old) box I always keep in mind that a re-tune is needed.
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Andrel

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2010, 07:45:52 PM »

I have owned a Bouebe and a Shamrock,(no longer available) and both were good. The Shamrock needed retuning, and on a trip to Brittany, I took it to this fellow:

http://www.atelierdelaccordeon.com/

Absolutely first-class service. Thierry is a master tuner and a gentleman. He sells Saltarelles, but will be the first to tell you that not all of them are created equal. Great advice.  Also deals with Hohners and can fix anything with reeds. He even builds his own boxes called "Diaoulig" (Little Devil ) They're great, unfortunately he only rents them out. (probably an agreement with Saltarelle).
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pbsalt

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2010, 10:47:51 PM »

Must have been lucky with my Saltarelle Nuage - I've had it 17 years & it still has the black paint apart from where I knocked it - & the stops survived me sitting on them after too many pints at Whitby. .
Like Martin ( Hi Martin it is me)  I've never been keen on the sound of Castignaris & I liked the Nuage because it  suited English music & French music & the 4 stops give lots of options.   

Did have an initial problem with a stuck note just after I purchased it but the this cured itself after a number of plays .   
I've never found a model I like quite as much so if I needed a replacement I'd just have to hope I could get another Nuage of the same quality.   
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melodeon

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 01:25:14 AM »

There is one very good dealer in the US that handles the Saltarelle line, that would be The Button Box.  However it is rare to see anything but a 1/2 step box or a lesser expensive Bouebe, not Irish Bouebe.

One famous player dealer who has a web site ,but has not responded to a half dozen e mails.. was beyond arrogant and rude in my only phone converstaion a few years back.. is known for taking your money,placing  the order and having it drop shipped . I know of more than one such deal where the box was wrong..and the buck was passed.. see previous post. That is it as far as I know for US dealers since Erin Breeze blew away;. he had no end of troubles with Saltarelle

Why is it some makers and dealers have no respect, almost a contempt for their clientele.
At the other end of the scale you have Theo and Rees and The Button Box and when pressed the Music Room.. I am sure there are others.. but it does not seem to be the Norm

BTW  how and why did it become my responsibility as a consumer buyer player, end user ( I intensely dislike that term...)  to do a manufacturers quality control. ?

Play before you pay is simply not an option in the States.

I am a former owner of a very B A D  Castagnari Mory..it does happen and the dealer was a total waste...unresponsive, irresponsible.

So unfortunately Saltarelle is off the shoppng list.  Too bad for them and me (us)

« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 05:22:47 AM by melodeon »
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tim54

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2010, 09:05:00 AM »

My Pastourelle III is a lovely instument. Since a retune at Hobgoblin in Nottingham (sadly no longer with us) it now sounds as good as it looks and plays.

Still use the Erica for morris though, cos it's loud!!

Tim
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Howard Jones

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2010, 10:55:53 AM »

I've played a Saltarelle Nuage for nearly 20 years.  There's a bit of wear to the paintwork in the corner where it's rubbed against my jeans, and a lot to the fingerboard (guitarist's fingernails), and it's starting to look a bit battered after years of hard use, but otherwise it's in good condition.  It is a bit weak in the upper octave, though - Theo worked his magic and it's now much improved, but perhaps not as good as it could be.

I thought the metal grille looked cheap and tinny so Martin Banks (who I bought it from) replaced it with a wooden grille.

I prefer the sound to that of Castagnaris, and the Nuage is a great concept - 23 buttons, 4th button start with both accidentals and low notes, flat keyboard, and 5 stops allowing plenty of choice over the sound.  It's a pity their quality is so variable.  Do any other makers offer something similar?  A friend has a Serellini Cloud, which is virtually identical but with a stepped keyboard (which I don't like - see the other thread).

Prestidigitator

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2010, 11:21:56 AM »


I prefer the sound to that of Castagnaris, and the Nuage is a great concept - 23 buttons, 4th button start with both accidentals and low notes, flat keyboard, and 5 stops allowing plenty of choice over the sound.  It's a pity their quality is so variable.  Do any other makers offer something similar?  A friend has a Serellini Cloud, which is virtually identical but with a stepped keyboard (which I don't like - see the other thread).
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melodeon

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2010, 02:31:18 PM »

I owned a Serenellini Cloud  D/G  stepped keyboard and a C#/D with flat board. In my opinion both were better than the equivalent, same period, Saltarelle.  Fit and finish was much better. I sold both in a fit of poverty.  One went to the Button Box, the other to Paul Groff.

BTW  it was a famous Brit player and former Saltarelle dealer that told me the Irish Bouebe was the first box to be designed specifically to be made with CNC.
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ganderbox

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2010, 02:18:12 PM »

I've never owned a Saltarelle.

I do now!
I was having a play on some of the boxes on the Music Room stand at Sidmouth (as you do) when this Pastourelle II jumped up and bit me! I really wasn't looking for a new box, and I've spent far too much on them recently, but this one is a gem.

It's incredibly powerful, but smooth, and it works for everything from morris to French waltzes. It really is "fast as your fingers" too. It's loud without being piercing, and the sound carries. It's very dry, but not thin. No problems with squeeky high notes, either, as even the top notes come out strongly. And it weighs less than 4 kg.
Downside is the layout of the accidentals which make no sense to me, and will get completely changed, but some of that will be just flipping reeds. I've also got to get used to 4th button start, which led to some interesting tune-changes when I first played it at a session, but I used it for a gig last night without mishap (apart from some problems with my bass microvox, but that's another story....)

It goes against the grain to buy a brand new box with a layout that, for me, is all wrong, but in view of all the above comments I don't think ordering a custom-made one was an option.
A good Saltarelle in the hand is worth quite a few of variable quality in the factory, I reckon (or at least that's my excuse!)
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Huw

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2010, 02:37:23 PM »

My last post about the Saltarelle Nuage I said how disappointed I was by it, but after the initial problems were sorted out it has played in very well and has not given any further trouble and has turned out to be a very nice box. Boxes of this price or for that matter any price should not leave the factories the way they do, but thankfully we are fortunate in that there are many excellent dealers who can rectify the manufactures faults, long may they continue.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 08:29:53 AM by Huw »
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squeezer

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2010, 05:40:05 PM »

Interestingly I have aPastourelle 3 C/F on order form the Music Room at the moment. I Have a Conn 3 , about 12 years old, and it didn't speak to me until I took it to Nils Nilsen for tuning, getting the basses to fire properly, the holes were too small for the reeds to get enough air to sound, and also the air button was rubbish and kept sticking as it dug into the wood, so he turned it over a loop and it is fine, after several tunings and re valving it is a dream Also the paint is still on it aparrt from where I dropped it.. it cracked but cascamite fixed it.

I also had a serenellini selli taht sounded brilliant and was a dream until I strted to push air thtorugh it and it leaked behind all of the other pallettes/ reeds so you got some very unwelcome chord
The only melodeons that I ahve never had to have re work done on were hohner pokerworks,all the others needed some sort of snagging on them

Squeezer. still looking forward with trepidation to a new box in september..

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Anahata

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2010, 05:44:04 PM »

The only melodeons that I ahve never had to have re work done on were hohner pokerworks,all the others needed some sort of snagging on them

But isn't the standard procedure for buying a pokerwork to try 10 (not all necessarily in the same shop) and pick the good one?  ;)

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squeezer

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2010, 06:42:46 PM »

But isn't the standard procedure for buying a pokerwork to try 10 (not all necessarily in the same shop) and pick the good one?  Wink

But If I did that I might get one thats in tune? and that would be darn nearly professional.... :o
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Erik

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Re: Saltarelle
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2010, 04:19:01 PM »

I have a secondhand salterlle DG 2 row melodeon, I did not find serious problems for more than a year and that is as long as I have the instrument . The only problem is that the buttons of the lower row can easy be bend up by packing the instrument. A bit carefull handling solves it and I have no problems at all left.

I like the sound, the castaniary ones are sharper and the saltarelle is more soft, more full in its tone.

If you try one make sure it is a silent environment and not on a festival with 10 other trying there new instrument.

Erik
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