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Author Topic: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?  (Read 6940 times)

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EeeJay

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'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« on: May 26, 2010, 05:31:00 PM »

Just picked up on this thread over at thesession.org

Here's the plan - a dyad based rig that gives a more 'open' feel to the accompaniment. Note how the diminished/augmented dominant 7th rows seems to have been 'merged'...

I'm aware of a similar setup - - where the majors are neutered... but nothing quite as seemingly inventive as this.

Wonder how it works in practice? Any of you MIDI users able to key it in to see if it's OK?

Food for thought... :|glug

Ed J
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 07:36:38 PM by EeeJay »
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Owen Woods

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 05:42:00 PM »

Don't have a stradella box with me, but it looks promising. You can make Maj7, Min7, Min6, +2, sus4, half diminished and 7 chords quite easily. Maj6 and full diminished slightly more tricky. Mind you, that's just from looking at the diagram, it may be that actually under your fingers, some of those chords would be difficult. An interesting system though (:)
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graememackay

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 01:04:10 AM »

it would use less air & sound a lot lighter. Quite often noone really hear's a bass end of a box in a sesion or band setting, only the player can really benifet from it.  If you need an extra note in the chord it's just a case of pressing the required button elsewhere.

I'm sure in session or band environment it would be ok.  But as soon as you hear it solo, or with midi, there would be bits missing.

Doesn't a chord need 3 notes to qualify to be a chord?
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Owen Woods

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 10:09:18 AM »

it would use less air & sound a lot lighter. Quite often noone really hear's a bass end of a box in a sesion or band setting, only the player can really benifet from it.  If you need an extra note in the chord it's just a case of pressing the required button elsewhere.

I'm sure in session or band environment it would be ok.  But as soon as you hear it solo, or with midi, there would be bits missing.

Doesn't a chord need 3 notes to qualify to be a chord?

Nope, two notes is all it takes :P I took it to be that you would generally press more than one button down at once, which means that you would be able to get many more interesting chords, plus taking the thirds out can be really quite useful. This means that you wouldn't be using up any more air, due to the fantastic mechanism, but you would be pressing down more than one button to get each chord.
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LDbosca

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 05:49:05 PM »

it would use less air & sound a lot lighter. Quite often noone really hear's a bass end of a box in a sesion or band setting, only the player can really benifet from it.  If you need an extra note in the chord it's just a case of pressing the required button elsewhere.

I'm sure in session or band environment it would be ok.  But as soon as you hear it solo, or with midi, there would be bits missing.

Doesn't a chord need 3 notes to qualify to be a chord?

Nope, two notes is all it takes :P I took it to be that you would generally press more than one button down at once, which means that you would be able to get many more interesting chords, plus taking the thirds out can be really quite useful. This means that you wouldn't be using up any more air, due to the fantastic mechanism, but you would be pressing down more than one button to get each chord.

I'd always heard 3 for a chord. Otherwise it presents naming difficulties, there's no name for G and B together, y'know? G B D is the "chord" of G major tho.

Also min6 chords are first inversion major 7th chords if one is to spell them accordion(!) to convention.

EeeJay

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 06:04:25 PM »

I'd always heard 3 for a chord. Otherwise it presents naming difficulties, there's no name for G and B together, y'know?

Like what I said - Dyad. As opposed to Triad (not the Chinese gangster sort! ;D).

All Chords...

Ed J
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LDbosca

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 06:40:36 PM »

I'd always heard 3 for a chord. Otherwise it presents naming difficulties, there's no name for G and B together, y'know?

Like what I said - Dyad. As opposed to Triad (not the Chinese gangster sort! ;D).

All Chords...

Ed J

I stand corrected!

Owen Woods

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 11:10:59 PM »

I'd always heard 3 for a chord. Otherwise it presents naming difficulties, there's no name for G and B together, y'know? G B D is the "chord" of G major tho.

Also min6 chords are first inversion major 7th chords if one is to spell them accordion(!) to convention.


GBD is the triad of G major, not the "chord" ;)

And min6 chords are min6 in my book, first inversion major 7 chords are used in different scenarios entirely, whether or not they have exactly the same notes in them in the same order :P I had a massive argument with my (more musically literate than me) girlfriend about a similar thing, the difference between G2+6 and G6/A, which I held were radically different. Ended with us both collapsed with laughter :P
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risto

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2010, 05:50:26 PM »


Note how the diminished/augmented row seems to have been 'merged'...


There probably is a mistake as Stradella basses do not normally have augmented chords, only 7th and diminished.

This really is an interesting thread as I'm currently working on a stradella bass design for modal music (got a used Stradella mechanism from Theo to start with).
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EeeJay

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2010, 07:41:08 PM »


Note how the diminished/augmented row seems to have been 'merged'...


There probably is a mistake as Stradella basses do not normally have augmented chords, only 7th and diminished.

But of course they do. Doh!!!!! :|bl

My typo/slip of the brain. ::) Now corrected. (:)

This really is an interesting thread as I'm currently working on a stradella bass design for modal music (got a used Stradella mechanism from Theo to start with).

Tell us more when you can... :|glug

Ed J
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 07:42:56 PM by EeeJay »
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risto

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2010, 07:57:09 PM »


I'd always heard 3 for a chord. ...

Me toooo... Isn't dyad just any set of two different pitch notes... but not a chord as understood in music theory...
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EeeJay

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »


I'd always heard 3 for a chord. ...

Me toooo... Isn't dyad just any set of two different pitch notes... but not a chord as understood in music theory...

Nope... not when I sat music theory at any rate.

Two notes played together, even a dissonance, is technically a chord.

Ed J
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Owen Woods

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 06:05:52 PM »

I've been thinking about this system and I really like it (:) Now I just need to get a junk bass that I don't mind ruining...
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risto

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2010, 07:44:17 PM »


Nope... not when I sat music theory at any rate.

Ed J

Well, we then had different classes and books I suppose.  ;)
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LJC

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2010, 08:20:04 PM »

Music BA 2 years ago taught that two notes was a diad which is only an interval. Needs to be a 3 note triad to make it a chord. Makes sense to me, but whats a missing interval between friends, eh?
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oggiesnr

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2010, 09:48:33 PM »

I'm getting confused.

Why not just use a freebass (or a bandoneon) for the same effect?

Steve
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EeeJay

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2010, 09:57:36 PM »

Well, we then had different classes and books I suppose.  ;)

Odd subject this...

As in two notes. Sounded together similtaneously...

Never definitively taught that they weren't. Never taught that they were for that matter.

Always felt that they were, in certain 'implied' contexts. I've encountered plenty of sources to so say either way since... so absolutism either way is... IMHO... tricky...

Never had sleepless nights worrying about it. ;)

Music BA 2 years ago...

Oh no... not another one of us... ::)

The state of the education system today... tsk... tsk... ;)

Ed J
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Owen Woods

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 03:46:09 AM »

I'm getting confused.

Why not just use a freebass (or a bandoneon) for the same effect?

Steve

Good question. I suppose that a freebass requires you to press down more buttons, which may be less comfortable and that chord progressions may be less convenient. I've never played one so I have no idea on that last point. But certainly this has a clear advantage in that you can form most 3 or 4 note chords with only two buttons, where as you would need 3 or 4 for a freebass.

As for the chord question, I defer to those with degrees, although I hold to my own beliefs with the stubbornness that has served me so well over the years :P
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Jon Loomes

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2010, 05:55:32 PM »

Murray Grainger uses something similar - (Bare 5ths on the 5th row, I think) , the idea being that the dom 7 can still be achieved with cross fingering.

Cheers,
Jon

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Re: 'Open Tuned' Stradella... new ideas?
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2010, 07:04:32 PM »

Marc Serafini uses an interesting bass configuration with 12 bass buttons and 12 chords that are open fifths.
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