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Author Topic: Bass Notes  (Read 19368 times)

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Chris Ryall

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2010, 07:40:08 AM »

Probably one of the hardest parts of learning the basses (IMO) is air management, you absolutely must only tap the bass and chords or, as you have found out, you will run out of air.

Thought Lester was on beer taps again for a moment  ;) - but what he says is very important.  I've heard it put 'pretend the buttons are red hot'. It is very easy to develop a bass style heavier than a Bavarian dumpling and was something I had to consciously unlearn 15 years ago. So I'd reinforce his tip - try not to go there in the first place.  Tap tap tap.
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2010, 08:59:25 AM »

This might make you feel better.
After lots of practice this was the first video I recorded of me trying to do the basses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TR_272sRus
and this one....where I really struggled with the air issue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvn2Y-ePvO8
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 09:02:05 AM by ladydetemps »
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2010, 11:16:53 AM »

My first attempt at bass notes...and it was awful! I'm now breathing in and out on the basses as well as the melody. I sound like an asthmatic chicken!
Sticking rigidly to Maggie's exercises and will persevere. Listening to her tutor CD in the car I missed my turn off on the A406...try turning around on that road in the rush hour!  :'(
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nfldbox

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2010, 02:29:05 PM »

Repeating Lester: air management. You might think you are having trouble with the notes when your real problem is you are running out of air and get confused.  On many boxes the basses can take a lot of air so just touch at least until you have it more or less figured out. And as Chris implies--I think that is the point of the Bavarian dumpling--basses can easily swamp the treble if you emphasize them too much.
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2010, 03:01:48 PM »

Repeating Lester: air management. You might think you are having trouble with the notes when your real problem is you are running out of air and get confused.  On many boxes the basses can take a lot of air so just touch at least until you have it more or less figured out. And as Chris implies--I think that is the point of the Bavarian dumpling--basses can easily swamp the treble if you emphasize them too much.
[/quote
It may well be that! I did make a mental note before about the light touch required on the bass keys but perhaps, whilst concentrating so much on playing the notes on both sides, I may well be using up too much air on the basses. I will endeavour to keep my touch as light as possible and see if that helps my performance. I'm sure it's because it is all so new having to use both hands but, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day and I shouldn't expect things to go swimmingly well from day one. Thanks! :Ph
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Owen Woods

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2010, 12:40:30 AM »

I think that nfldbox said is quite pertinent. I've found that when looking at videos of beginners on YouTube, like ldt when she first started, problems that I see arise not from poor right or left hand technique but from bellows and air control. My bellows control is not the greatest, but the bellows are the music maker and as such require an awful lot of practice before anything sounds good.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2010, 08:02:00 AM »

The revelation that lightened my left end most was .. taking the finger off the button is also a musical rhythm event.

Here's Cyrile Brotto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXAU6BgwgqQ in tap mode
Someone else playing one of his pieces http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC4Wg8iruBo

OK this is well down the trail-  but hopefully shows where you might go. Just note how often these guys' left hands are playing 'silence'

Something simpler from Finland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgErzFxibsQ

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george garside

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2010, 10:14:03 AM »

The revelation that lightened my left end most was .. taking the finger off the button is also a musical rhythm event.

 

quite so!  It maay sound daft but how you take your finger off the button is an extremely important ingredient in developing the 'light touch' Try getting some air between your finger & the button on each strike!

as to timing  those who keep spot on time  with their foot (?dancers or ex dancers) have far less difficulty than those of a 'classical' orientation who insist on keeping b oth feet firmly on the ground and counting everything throughout the proceedings!   

for (in time) foot tappers its simply for 4/4 or 6/8  foot down - bass note,  foot up - chord. the same principle applies if you only wnat the chord without the bass note, foot down - nothing,  foot up -chord

Waltz rhytm 3/4 works just the same  foot down - bass note,  foot up chord chord.

Lift is obtained by playing a very short bass note andd a longer chord - otherwise known as emphasising the off beat or playhing a short UM and a long PA
.

ONce this is second nature you can experiment with all sorts of variations on the bass eg changing from very rhythmic to playing bass notes the same length as treble notes or playing a bass note whilepla;ying several treble notes or whatever you want so as to break the monotony of a steady um pa throughout the proceedings.

george
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Guy

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2010, 10:24:00 AM »


Here's Cyrile Brotto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXAU6BgwgqQ in tap mode
Someone else playing one of his pieces http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC4Wg8iruBo

OK this is well down the trail-  but hopefully shows where you might go. Just note how often these guys' left hands are playing 'silence'


Wow Chris....I'm gobsmacked...just picking myself up off the floor. I've never heard him play before, and this was a real eye-opener. Thanks hugely for sharing this one,

Guy
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Anahata

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2010, 11:20:33 AM »

The revelation that lightened my left end most was .. taking the finger off the button is also a musical rhythm event.

Something I learned in my very earliest days of playing folk music, from Greg Trice who played piano accordion (which was also my instrument at the time because I'd never even seen a melodeon at that stage  :o ). He was a fanatic about playing it in a crisp style with detached notes especially in the basses. The PA has always had a bad reputation in English dance (except for the EFDSS "walking pretty shapes" social dance scene who seem to enjoy Mantovani-style piano accordion...) but he was adamant that it was not the instrument itself, but bad playing style, which is to blame.

Under his influence, by the time I transferred to melodeon via B/C/C# chromatic, I had developed a percussive approach and learned the value of the silences between notes as a component of musical expression and bouncy rhythm.

Interestingly, the excellent examples that Chris posted are all doing fairly straight "oom pah pah" basses - a style which some of us melnetters claim to be desperately avoiding. I've always been slightly puzzled by this: if you make the "oom" long and the "pah"s short you give the tune plenty of musical lift and it seems to me a perfectly good basis for a dance tune accompaniment, especially if you occasionally miss the odd beat or play a single long note where the shape of the tune suggests it. It's only when the 2nd and 3rd beats get too much length (and hence emphasis) that it sounds plodding.

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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2010, 12:39:19 PM »

In view of the difficulties with learning to play the bass notes which, being a total beginner, are only to be expected I would assume, I have now split my practice/learning sessions into two distinct halves.
The first half I concentrate entirely upon the bass notes exercises from Maggie's book which are not particularly fun, are quite frustrating but are obviously quite vital to learning to play the melodeon properly.
The second half comes in when I just can't stand doing any more of the exercises and, in this section, I just try and play tunes I like (but with no basses) and which I either have the music for or have learnt myself. This cheers me up no end!
As far as I can tell, this way of doing things seems to work but is it a good idea, do you think? Can you see any problems this might be leading me into as a novice? It would be no use to tell me that, at this stage, I should be trying to introduce basses into the second half of my session because I know that I am far from ready to attempt anything like that as it still takes all my concentration to produce a tune on it's own. Any views would be appreciated! ???
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2010, 12:41:05 PM »

In view of the difficulties with learning to play the bass notes which, being a total beginner, are only to be expected I would assume, I have now split my practice/learning sessions into two distinct halves.
The first half I concentrate entirely upon the bass notes exercises from Maggie's book which are not particularly fun, are quite frustrating but are obviously quite vital to learning to play the melodeon properly.
The second half comes in when I just can't stand doing any more of the exercises and, in this section, I just try and play tunes I like (but with no basses) and which I either have the music for or have learnt myself. This cheers me up no end!
As far as I can tell, this way of doing things seems to work but is it a good idea, do you think? Can you see any problems this might be leading me into as a novice? It would be no use to tell me that, at this stage, I should be trying to introduce basses into the second half of my session because I know that I am far from ready to attempt anything like that as it still takes all my concentration to produce a tune on it's own. Any views would be appreciated! ???
Well I always start by doing the boring stuff (like eating your vegetables first as a kid) then 'reward' myself with the fun stuff.

Anahata

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2010, 02:51:11 PM »

The first half I concentrate entirely upon the bass notes exercises from Maggie's book
...
The second half comes in when I just can't stand doing any more of the exercises and, in this section, I just try and play tunes I like (but with no basses)

The more different ways you practice the better. Every different way you play something, you learn...
At some stage, though, you will have to tackle the novel experience of playing both hands at once.
Maybe you can start on this just one bar at a time, so you get used to the idea... find a pattern you can repeat easily, then play again and again till you can get it right, then some more until you can do it perfectly every time. Then all over again for the next bar  ::) but it will get easier, I promise  (:)
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Rob2Hook

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2010, 04:50:02 PM »

The contrast in styles of bass playing can be interesting.  Some newcomers (and some more experienced players) who have never played another instrument seem to have difficulty in selecting an appropriate bass/chord sequence.  Typically they will plonk away on the G/D keys when playing in G, sounding like a gutless four-stop box.  My promotion from mandola player to box player in our band means that I often get stuck in the basic three chord trick, with a walking bass sequence - same way I played the mandoline as a rythm instrument.

By contrast, DTN sits and tries every available button to create a sequence of great complexity, with a bass/chord sequence I can rarely follow.  Mind you, sometimes we disagree strongly as to whether his latest arrangement is an improvement on the 3 chord trick!   ;D

Another contrasting style would be IanD, whose use of bass rythm and bellows control give great dynamics to both his morris playing and band playing.

Rob.
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2010, 04:53:01 PM »

I wish my basses had an 'automatic' switch and would play without my input with variable difficulty from 'bog standard' to 'show off'.

Chris Ryall

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2010, 08:40:27 PM »

Interestingly, the excellent examples that Chris posted are all doing fairly straight "oom pah pah" basses

 ???  could I invite you to watch Cyrille Brotto joue Las Fatmas once again- but watching the left hand

OK - he doesn'nt have your fantastic bass runs  :D
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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2010, 09:05:59 PM »

Karen Tweed said that she spent a lot of time listening to the best "rhythm" guitarists she could find to get new ideas for accompanying tunes so as to move away from the straight um-pah bass.

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2010, 11:04:49 AM »


The first half I concentrate entirely upon the bass notes exercises from Maggie's book which are not particularly fun, are quite frustrating but are obviously quite vital to learning to play the melodeon properly.
The second half comes in when I just can't stand doing any more of the exercises and, in this section, I just try and play tunes I like (but with no basses) and which I either have the music for or have learnt myself. This cheers me up no end!

Well I'm two weeks into this or thereabouts.  I've found that I can now muddle through doing a basic Um-pah with no chord changes (and very slowly with lots of mistakes) - Egan's Polka, What Can the Matter be and Cock O' the North from Mally's book.  I have also got hold of Maggie's book yesterday and I'm having a go at Sur La Point and Buttered Peas.  So there's a waltz and jig and a few "march time" or polka tunes.

Maggie's exercises look very useful and I've tried them out a bit, but boredom sets in quickly. I think they will be a good warm up for a while. However now that I have five real tunes (six of you count frere jacques which I dont cos I hate it) to vary it up a bit I'm quite content to stick at it for a while and see how good I can get them. 

Its all a bit of a slog and and a foot-stompingly frustrating business, though what seemed ridiculously and laughably impossible last week is coming together a bit now.  I'm still not convinced the Um-pah will ever become natural in an "auto-pilot" kind of a way as promised on the tin.

Ray




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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2010, 11:41:53 AM »

Karen Tweed said that she spent a lot of time listening to the best "rhythm" guitarists she could find to get new ideas for accompanying tunes so as to move away from the straight um-pah bass.

There's a lot to be said for listening to other instruments.
Becky Price, after learning classical piano and accordion, says in the folk world she listens to melodeon players, not other accordionists.

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george garside

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2010, 12:15:22 PM »

a simple exercise to develop the light touch on the bass iss to only use (for the purposes of the exercise) 2 bass thoughout a   a few tunes. i.e. th;e D/G bass note ;& chord if playing in G.  If played turgidly there will be noticeable dischords here & there. Practice tapping very lightly untill the dischords can no longer be heard,

I also advocate this exercise for heavy handed players of stradella bass for which it works even better - If the tune is in G just use the G bass note & chord throughout the proceedings untill the touch becomes light enough for the dischords to vanish.

once the very light touch has been aquired - & it does take a lot of paractice for some people, you then have the choice of playing loud & heavy or very light or anything in between according to how you waantt to make the particular bit of a particular tune sound. Those who can only play turgidly leaave themselfes with no choices!

george
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