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Author Topic: Bass Notes  (Read 19371 times)

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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2010, 01:17:30 PM »




You missed out how many fingers on treble end >:E By contrast the argument about RH position relative to groove was fairly convivial.
[/quote]
I've just read the argument on the concertina site quoted here. All I can say is, I'm glad I bought a melodeon! :Ph :Ph
[/quote]
Yes..and over there whatever you do don't ask any opinions on ITM over ETM..... ;)
[/quote]
I won't...I'm too scared to go on there anymore! :-\
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2010, 01:24:05 PM »



I won't...I'm too scared to go on there anymore! :-\
ah but that's 'tame' compared to mudcat's "discussions" lol!

oggiesnr

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2010, 03:09:01 PM »



I won't...I'm too scared to go on there anymore! :-\
ah but that's 'tame' compared to mudcat's "discussions" lol!

They have "discussions" on Mudcat  >:E

Steve
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2010, 08:40:49 PM »


Personally, I'd say that it's not worth beating yourself up by struggling to play a tune you don't like.

When I first started playing, I couldn't get the basses until someone taught me to play Speed the Plough. (The English version that most melodeon players play). There's something about the way the melody and basses fit together that makes it easy to get the hang of, and the penny drops.
It worked for me, and it's worked for quite a few other beginners I've suggested it to.

[/quote]
The only Speed the Plough I have is in Dave Mallinson's book and, to understand what he is talking about when it comes to the bass notes, you need a masters degree in music. So yet again that book has been thrown across the room in rage  :|bl :|bl (narrowly missing the cat, I might add)  :'( and I'm back with good old Maggie's Sur Le Pont and Buttered Peas. At least she tells you what bass keys to press which is what a beginner like me needs!  :Ph

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GbH

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2010, 09:48:04 PM »

The only Speed the Plough I have is in Dave Mallinson's book and, to understand what he is talking about when it comes to the bass notes, you need a masters degree in music.

I'm intrigued - what is it that's causing the problem?
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2010, 09:50:04 PM »

folkman i think we need a video  update of where you are at with your playing.

oggiesnr

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2010, 10:47:02 PM »

My bass technique (I'll post a sound file at the weekend) ...

I learn the tune, then I start pressing bass notes, not quite at random but nearly.  I listen to what I play, when I think "that works" I try and remember what it was I played and do it again.  I don't/cannot do all these fancy runs that some can but IMHO opinion it works for me.  I also try to avoid oom-pah bass lines wherever possible.

Steve
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StevenCain

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2010, 12:00:11 AM »

The only Speed the Plough I have is in Dave Mallinson's book and, to understand what he is talking about when it comes to the bass notes, you need a masters degree in music.

I'm intrigued - what is it that's causing the problem?

If I remember rightly, Mally uses STP to demo a range of techniques which while mainly grounded in the 3 chord trick, uses some less obvious chords as well as drones and silences. It's a lot fancier than my approach (which is basic 3 chord), and probably not what folkman is looking for in terms of beginning basses.

folkman: based on my own experience I'd be inclined to stick with Maggie's Melodeon for the moment. It's really well designed, progressively introducing new skills and extending you just a bit further each time. The only downside in my view is related to the carefully graded material - sometimes the versions of the tunes which take you to the next stage are less exciting than those you would like to be playing. On the matter of Amazing Grace - the tune in MM is simpler than the tune as I know it, making it both harder for me to play, and less interesting.

On the matter of Dave Mallinson's book - I don't think his basses are as beginner friendly as other parts of his book. Where he does well for beginners is in planning how to move your fingers on the right hand. Something you may soon find helpful for tunes which use more than 4 buttons.




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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2010, 06:15:01 AM »

folkman i think we need a video  update of where you are at with your playing.
I wouldn't know how to do a video! Not very hi-tech I'm afraid! ???
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2010, 06:19:09 AM »

The only Speed the Plough I have is in Dave Mallinson's book and, to understand what he is talking about when it comes to the bass notes, you need a masters degree in music.

I'm intrigued - what is it that's causing the problem?
The problem is that he doesn't tell you what buttons to press and that is what I need at the moment. Having had no real previous experience at playing any sort of musical instrument and no comprehension of reading music I need things spelt out in the most simplistic of ways unfortunately.
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2010, 06:29:40 AM »


folkman: based on my own experience I'd be inclined to stick with Maggie's Melodeon for the moment. It's really well designed, progressively introducing new skills and extending you just a bit further each time. The only downside in my view is related to the carefully graded material - sometimes the versions of the tunes which take you to the next stage are less exciting than those you would like to be playing. On the matter of Amazing Grace - the tune in MM is simpler than the tune as I know it, making it both harder for me to play, and less interesting.

On the matter of Dave Mallinson's book - I don't think his basses are as beginner friendly as other parts of his book. Where he does well for beginners is in planning how to move your fingers on the right hand. Something you may soon find helpful for tunes which use more than 4 buttons.

I have decided to stick rigidly to Maggie's book from now on and do the exercises on the bass as they are spelt out quite clearly for me. I take your point about the right hand finger movement which, even as a beginner, I am very conscious of trying to get right so I may use DM's book as a reference for that. And I have George's book so I will be looking at that as well.
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #71 on: July 09, 2010, 06:38:21 AM »

My bass technique (I'll post a sound file at the weekend) ...

I learn the tune, then I start pressing bass notes, not quite at random but nearly.  I listen to what I play, when I think "that works" I try and remember what it was I played and do it again.  I don't/cannot do all these fancy runs that some can but IMHO opinion it works for me.  I also try to avoid oom-pah bass lines wherever possible.

Steve
The problem with that is I don't think that I am a natural musician (?) and cannot improvise with bass notes to see what sounds right and what sounds wrong. Sometimes a wrong bass note will sound obviously wrong to me but I cannot guarantee that. I'm hoping that this will come with practice and experience! I need to be told what to press so at least I will be getting some degree of satisfaction
in my learning that I am producing a tune with the right bass accompaniment.
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2010, 09:31:35 AM »

as you can see I struggled with the basses at first

Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvn2Y-ePvO8

After
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq5dtIQlC-g&feature=PlayList&p=FDBC2E2047E17BE3&playnext_from=PL

edit: May 2009?!? It only seems like it was last week.  :o
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 09:35:25 AM by ladydetemps »
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george garside

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2010, 09:59:57 AM »


 

 

 , I am very conscious of trying to get right so I may use DM's book as a reference for that. 



Don't get hung up over 'getting it right'  - there is no right other than it sounding OK & there are  often different ways of achieving this.  It is also not necessary to plaay the bass throughout a tune - in fact the si;mplest (free of charge!) way of ornementing the bass is to leave them out for a bar or two of the tune  (less is more principle). Often the best place to leave the bass out  is where you have a tricky bit of tune with lots of short notes as  effeectively the fancy bit of melody is highlighted. (it also saves you worrying about both ends when you need to concentrate on the tune!)   It is also not compulory to play the bass at all & I personally prefer some tunes especially slow aires without any bass  & ato rely on dynamics & phrasing to get best effect. Again no rights & wrongs, others may prefer substantial use of bass for slow aires.

All things take time - when you look back in 3, 6 or 12 months you will wonder  why you struggled a bit at the beginning --it happens to everybody!

george ;)
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2010, 10:19:21 AM »


folkman: based on my own experience I'd be inclined to stick with Maggie's Melodeon for the moment. It's really well designed, progressively introducing new skills and extending you just a bit further each time. The only downside in my view is related to the carefully graded material - sometimes the versions of the tunes which take you to the next stage are less exciting than those you would like to be playing. On the matter of Amazing Grace - the tune in MM is simpler than the tune as I know it, making it both harder for me to play, and less interesting.

On the matter of Dave Mallinson's book - I don't think his basses are as beginner friendly as other parts of his book. Where he does well for beginners is in planning how to move your fingers on the right hand. Something you may soon find helpful for tunes which use more than 4 buttons.

I have decided to stick rigidly to Maggie's book from now on and do the exercises on the bass as they are spelt out quite clearly for me. I take your point about the right hand finger movement which, even as a beginner, I am very conscious of trying to get right so I may use DM's book as a reference for that. And I have George's book so I will be looking at that as well.

I found taking a pick 'n' mix attitude to the tutorial books/dvd's on offer helped a lot...
plus get ye to a workshop!

Mally - good for getting started with melody
George - good for basses
John Kirkpatrick DVD - handy for when I needed to 'see' what was being explained in text in the books
John Spiers DVD - made me think about other 'possibilities' and go 'oh so that's what that's for'.

folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2010, 10:19:43 AM »


 

 

 , I am very conscious of trying to get right so I may use DM's book as a reference for that. 



Don't get hung up over 'getting it right'  - there is no right other than it sounding OK & there are  often different ways of achieving this.  It is also not necessary to plaay the bass throughout a tune - in fact the si;mplest (free of charge!) way of ornementing the bass is to leave them out for a bar or two of the tune  (less is more principle). Often the best place to leave the bass out  is where you have a tricky bit of tune with lots of short notes as  effeectively the fancy bit of melody is highlighted. (it also saves you worrying about both ends when you need to concentrate on the tune!)   It is also not compulory to play the bass at all & I personally prefer some tunes especially slow aires without any bass  & ato rely on dynamics & phrasing to get best effect. Again no rights & wrongs, others may prefer substantial use of bass for slow aires.

All things take time - when you look back in 3, 6 or 12 months you will wonder  why you struggled a bit at the beginning --it happens to everybody!

george ;)
Thanks George, it never entered my head that playing a tune without using the bass notes is 'acceptable'. That doesn't mean to say that I'm not going to use them at all, it just gives me the confidence to concentrate on and enjoy the melody and bring in the bass at my own speed.
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2010, 10:27:22 AM »


I found taking a pick 'n' mix attitude to the tutorial books/dvd's on offer helped a lot...
plus get ye to a workshop!

Mally - good for getting started with melody
George - good for basses
John Kirkpatrick DVD - handy for when I needed to 'see' what was being explained in text in the books
John Spiers DVD - made me think about other 'possibilities' and go 'oh so that's what that's for'.


[/quote]
Workshop? I'd be a bundle of nerves....
At the moment there's not much I can play without looking at my scores. I have the key numbers marked above the notes and find this allows to me play a lot better. I know this should not be a longstanding arrangement but it certainly helps me  at the moment.
Not sure about the DVD's as they always look too technical for me but I do have Maggie's CD which I listen to. :||:
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folkman

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2010, 10:30:23 AM »

as you can see I struggled with the basses at first

Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvn2Y-ePvO8

After
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq5dtIQlC-g&feature=PlayList&p=FDBC2E2047E17BE3&playnext_from=PL

edit: May 2009?!? It only seems like it was last week.  :o
Heck of an improvement that! Hope I can attain something similar. How do you get these things onto youtube? ???
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ladydetemps

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2010, 10:37:21 AM »


Workshop? I'd be a bundle of nerves....

Every time I go to a workshop I'm petrified...but by a month or so down the line I can see the benefits. You can only get so much from books sometimes you just need someone to show you (or play down the phone at you ;) :P )

Quote
at the moment there's not much I can play without looking at my scores. I have the key numbers marked above the notes and find this allows to me play a lot better. I know this should not be a longstanding arrangement but it certainly helps me  at the moment.
So do I...although in pencil....I can now erase all the tunes in G's button numbers, but still need them for playing in D, and some tunes in C (when they go down the dusty end of the melodeon).
And if I had one in another key I'd have to write the numbers out as well.
All my tunebooks are covered in scribbles.



Heck of an improvement that! Hope I can attain something similar. How do you get these things onto youtube? ???
I use the webcam on my macbook, export as a mov or mp4 video then upload on youtube....easy.
You need a youtube account of course.

Howard Jones

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Re: Bass Notes
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2010, 11:02:57 AM »

Thanks George, it never entered my head that playing a tune without using the bass notes is 'acceptable'. That doesn't mean to say that I'm not going to use them at all, it just gives me the confidence to concentrate on and enjoy the melody and bring in the bass at my own speed.

If you're struggling with basses it may well help to get more confident with the melody first.  Co-ordinating two hands doing quite different things is a bit of a struggle at first, so it helps if at least one of them knows what it's doing.  However don't leave it too long to bring in the left hand - I know of players who concentrated on playing the melody for too long and now find they can't manage basses at all.

If you can't "hear" the right chords, again don't worry too much.  The melodeon is an idiosyncratic instrument, and often the natural chords to play aren't necessarily what music theory would dictate or what other musicians would expect.  I spend a lot of time discussing chords with the guitar and keyboard players in my band so that we all end up playing roughly the same thing, as the chords they naturally expect to play aren't always what I naturally expect to play.  The bass buttons are directly related to the keys of the melody, so whatever you play, even if it's not "right", shouldn't' sound too "wrong".

To learn to hear chords better, when you listen to music try to focus on the harmony.  Listen to a guitarist, preferably someone playing simple chords to accompany a tune or a song.  Try to get a feel for which chords sound best at each point in the tune.
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