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Author Topic: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression  (Read 7587 times)

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george garside

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 07:03:46 PM »

there is little or no difference between the effect that can be got from a piano accordion  or continental chromatic that is the result of the different layouts.   Any attempts at 'melodeonizing' the output from either is  down to the skills of the player rather than  to the layout of the box.

george
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Accordion Dave

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2010, 06:03:49 AM »

It would seem that one could get the "melodeon bounce" on a piano accordion by reversing bellows direction more often than necessary.

Just pretend that your piano accordion is bisonoric and that you need to change direction even when you don't.
I never use the air button on a piano accordion but this could add to the desired effect.

(Why it would be desired is a mystery to me.) 



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Accordion Dave

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2010, 06:18:25 AM »

I'm not sure why this discussion is broken into two different sections.

I think that my awareness of the bellows has increased since I started playing my melodeons. I used to run out of air on my piano accordions, but now that is seldom a problem.

The bellows shake is an interesting technique. In Polish style American polka music the bellows is rapidly reversed in time with the music. The accordion esentially becomes a rhythm instrument.

I am getting better at this technique. It seems to work better playing with a band than solo. 

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Anahata

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2010, 08:29:22 AM »

It would seem that one could get the "melodeon bounce" on a piano accordion by reversing bellows direction more often than necessary.

Too heavy.

What many piano accordion players need to do is learn that if their fingers lose contact with the keyboard for a millisecond the keyboard will not vanish into hyperspace. Get articulation with the fingers, use the bellows for accents.
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HallelujahAl

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2010, 09:28:29 AM »

Quote
What many piano accordion players need to do is learn that if their fingers lose contact with the keyboard for a millisecond the keyboard will not vanish into hyperspace.

Agree! The bounce comes from the fingers.
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george garside

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2010, 09:59:23 AM »

 on both ends of the box!

george
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george garside

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2010, 10:10:54 AM »

its not so much bellows 'shake' but rather a gentle pulsing of the bellows which requires good wrist (not arm or elbow) control of the bellows. It can be used to add a third layer of rythm ( first layer must come from the way the melody is played - 2nd layer from the bass)

eaasyest way to develop the technique (on any type of box)  is to hold a treble note whilst gently opening or closing the bellows using, instead of an even pull or push overlaying this with eg PUSh/push push - waltz or Push/push for reels, jigs etc.  ~This can be done anywhere in bellows travel on piano & continental but only makes sense where the bellows are going in the same didrection for a few inches on melodeons i.e. avaid when otherwise engaged on a series of quick push/pulls. It works eqally well on Bc & BCC#  and is particularly useful on BC  with lack of 'useful' bass.

like any other form of embelishmeent use sparingly and only where it really adds to the proceedingss

george
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Sandy Flett

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2010, 10:56:35 AM »

its not so much bellows 'shake' but rather a gentle pulsing of the bellows which requires good wrist (not arm or elbow) control of the bellows. It can be used to add a third layer of rhythm ( first layer must come from the way the melody is played - 2nd layer from the bass)
george

Bob Cann was the great master of this technique (which I call "huffy bellows") on his Club melodeon. Dan Quinn is another great exponent of the technique on D/G and one-row melodeons, as can be heard on this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFBUPbKni9I.

As has been said above, achieving such rhythmic effects on accordion is easier the smaller/lighter the accordion.
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waltzman

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2010, 01:36:17 PM »

It would seem that one could get the "melodeon bounce" on a piano accordion by reversing bellows direction more often than necessary.

Too heavy.

What many piano accordion players need to do is learn that if their fingers lose contact with the keyboard for a millisecond the keyboard will not vanish into hyperspace. Get articulation with the fingers, use the bellows for accents.



I think the bounce is obtained with the fingers on the english concertina also so I don't really think it's a simple matter of weight. 
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Accordion Dave

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Re: CBA or PA for capturing "melodeon influences"?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2010, 02:05:26 PM »

I can get plenty of finger bounce with my full size 120-bass piano accordion between the bass/chord side and the keyboard side.

When playing up-tempo Tyrolean Alps music my left and right hands are not exactly synchonized. One hand will play a split second after the other sort of bouncing between left and right.

I can also play with a smooth legato effect where the bellows is like a smooth bow on a violin.

The bellows shake adds more variety.


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Sandy Flett

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2010, 03:17:41 PM »

As you will notice, the two "melodeon influences" threads I started have been merged (thanks Theo), which is more sensible and convenient the way the discussions have developed.
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ladydetemps

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2010, 03:20:02 PM »

As you will notice, the two "melodeon influences" threads I started have been merged (thanks Theo), which is more sensible and convenient the way the discussions have developed.
That was me doing the merging....got the keys to the front door you know. ;)

Sandy Flett

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2010, 04:33:32 PM »

As you will notice, the two "melodeon influences" threads I started have been merged (thanks Theo), which is more sensible and convenient the way the discussions have developed.
That was me doing the merging....got the keys to the front door you know. ;)

On closer reading, it did indeed say the merge was by ladydetemps - I find I go straight to the link without reading the messages. So thank you for that.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2010, 10:17:26 AM »

Just to add that I was taken to dinner at the ethnic Russian restaurant in Helsinki yesterday which was certainly an experience! :P Cabaret was a tall blonde lady singing with balalaika, and a young fella on a 3-row bayan.

The latter looked at least 30 years old (both!) and was played with great skill. There were the ususal flash broken chords. But I was particularly impressed by the softness of his line against his partner, paticularly in accompanying a very quiet balalaika.

Whether this might be in any way a trait of melodeon players-  will probably spark further debate!
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Kautilya

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Re: Using melodeon influences to improve accordion expression
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2010, 08:35:52 PM »

As you will notice, the two "melodeon influences" threads I started have been merged (thanks Theo), which is more sensible and convenient the way the discussions have developed.
That was me doing the merging....got the keys to the front door you know. ;)
Folk were thinking you had put that great big right foot of your's in it again.
(ps please rotate some possible red had style piccies for cTrad event. Of course a feather in our hats (of whatever kind) would also achieve the same purpose of recognising where others are in the crowd... (:) )
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